This is a transcript of episode 64 of the OMGrowth podcast
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I’m Lanie Lamarre and here’s the problem with having great guests like Dama Jue: you can talk to them for hours about really cool, insightful ways to optimize your results and bottom line, and this makes it nearly impossible to edit those episodes down to the usual 10-15 minute format. Miss Dama was struggling with a sore throat on this one but something she definitely does NOT struggle with is getting us all to re-think the low-lying fruit for seeing more and better sales conversions, and why we can’t afford to be as complacent with accepting payments as maybe we have been.
Dama Jue (00:00):
I map out all my products. I map out my, you know, when you have days where you’re like, Ooh, I’m just a full of ideas. I’m gonna, I need to write it down. I do that in whimsical because then I can add branches and like, they turn into mind maps and then those mind maps turn into course structures. And then I go through and check them off as I do, as I record them. And as I produce them and as I create the page, like, it’s just whimsical is whoa.
Lanie Lamarre (00:24):
Oh my God, stop it. That’s so like that, those sorts of tools are straight up flirting with me. I was just talking to, oh, I was talking to Diane Mayer recently. Mm-hmm, showing her built with.com where it will show you any website that you want and show you like how it was built, what plugins they’re using, what they have installed, what tracking, and it show you for yourself. And it’ll show you for any domain that you enter. And I’ll give you the timelines of like, when they installed it, when they didn’t, uh, uninstalled it. And you’re like, oh my God, this is
Dama Jue (00:53):
All I love you. And built with, to creep on things, to creep on people, to creep on just like, this is so good. How are they doing this? Oh, we big fan.
Lanie Lamarre (01:01):
There’s just so many really cool tools out there, but oh totally DMA chew. You are going to talk to us today. Not about all the cool tools you know about, but about, uh, checkout pages, which is on its own cool tool that we don’t think enough about.
Dama Jue (01:17):
Oh, it’s totally the for forget the forgotten middle child, like a hundred percent.
Lanie Lamarre (01:20):
Yeah, for totally. This is where they’re literally hitting the pay now or buy now button. And yet we are just using what everyone else is using. We spend all this time on sales pages on writing the perfect copy on getting the perfect images on the colors and the buttons and the, this and that. And you, when it comes time to actually get that commitment, we’re just like, yeah, the standard thing is fine.
Dama Jue (01:41):
Oh totally. You would not believe how many. So I use thrive cart. Um, and there’s this standard like greenish color that they have as like their default checkout button color, you would not believe how many checkouts I see with that generic, teal color. There’s no info on the page. And I’m just like, oh baby, you’re just, you’re just missing out so much here. And there’s just such a little thing, a few little things you can do that can have a big impact. But yeah, like you said, people treat sales pages. They are absolutely the Regina George of like your funnel, right? Your sales page is everything. Everybody cares about how she’s dressed, what she’s wearing, what she’s saying and like what your copy is on your sales page. And the design. I have had clients who are more than happy to throw thousands of dollars at the copy.
Dama Jue (02:29):
Thousands of dollars at the sales page design. And now I’m not gonna say there’s anything wrong with that. It’s important, right? It’s your number one, selling asset. You’re investing in revenue when you really focus on those on that page. But it’s like saying you picked out the perfect dress and you just walk in and you’re ratty like slippers, you know, like it’s missing out on taking it to the next level with your checkout page. It’s just, what are you doing, girl? Like, I’m gonna look down and see that you came. And you’re like, ratty flip Flo said, you’re wearing this fabulous gown. Like it’s just, you’re missing out.
Lanie Lamarre (03:01):
I totally get where that thought process comes in or doesn’t come in. Because again, yeah, we’re always talking about the sales page and most platforms like I use Kartra I used to use thrive cart. Um, when I had, you know, my everything separate, but I’m all in one with Kartra now. But if I were to leave that I’ve thought long and hard multiple times to go back to thrive card, just because it seems to be a lot more customizable than it used to be when I was with it. And typically platforms don’t allow you to customize a checkout page, which is why we’re just so used to, this is what checkout pages look like. Mm-hmm,
Dama Jue (03:35):
super simple. Here’s the buy now button. Here’s where you put your credit card info. Very simple. And the thing is, is that what I found is that if you’ve ever used a software called Haja, which is like, where you can actually see how people kick in your sales page, and if you’ve ever done that, you’ll notice that there are two kinds of people. People who read every word yeah. On the sales page, they read every word they, you can see as they track with their mouse. Like they, you can see them reading every word. And then there’s the other people who read, read the headline, look for the first, take tummy, more button. And they jump down to the stack. They read the stack, they read what’s included. They wanna know the price. And then that’s it. You might have some people spend seven to 10 minutes on a sales page.
Dama Jue (04:19):
Let me just tell you that’s the very mm-hmm that’s uncommon. Most people will not read every word of your assiduously carefully ho crafted sales copy. They’re just not most people are like, mm-hmm okay. What’s the price. Yeah. And what’s included. Um, and so they always wanna see the mockup. They wanna see what’s included like bullet points, like very nitty gritty. And then if they’re intrigued, they may scroll on down to testimonials. Um, they may skim those. They may skim the bonus section. Those are popular, but most people, and I wanna say it’s varied depending on the audience, but I wanna say higher than 70% as a ballpark. Um, let me jump to the bottom cuz that’s what I care about. I want the numbers and I want what’s included. Let’s go. And then if they’re interested, they’re checking and going to the checkout page and where the checkout page can fall down on the job is if it’s bland, if it doesn’t have any additional info, because I don’t know about you, but I’m a tab hoarder. And before I was an entrepreneur, I would like have two, three tabs open. And that was it.
Lanie Lamarre (05:22):
You’re looking at my screen. How could you access it?
Dama Jue (05:25):
Right? And so like, now I will have anywhere like 30 tabs open is pretty like modest for me. That’s pretty minimal. I can have anywhere to, up to like 200 tabs open. And so what matters is what did I leave open in a tab? And the reason I leave things open a tab is cause I’m gonna come back to ’em, I’m a procrastinator. I’m the kind of person who’s gonna wait till the last minute I’ve got other things going on in my business that are hotter fires. So I’m not gonna decide if I wanna buy this program right now, but I’m gonna go ahead and leave it open in a tab. Cuz I promise I’ll come back to it. Right. I may or may not. But there are a couple things that are gonna help me decide, do I still want this thing? And often the checkout page can be one of them.
Lanie Lamarre (06:05):
No kidding. I never even thought of that. But you were so right about that where you just keep that page open and you don’t actually follow through. And then if it doesn’t resonate with you, when you go back to it or if it doesn’t have that same like wow factor that you got on the sales page, you might just close that tab.
Dama Jue (06:20):
Right? Exactly. So, because I’m a data nerd, like you, I see how long people are on a page. I see how long I, you can see that data right in your analytics. So
Lanie Lamarre (06:30):
Be like, what are you doing 20 minutes? I
Dama Jue (06:31):
Know like you just, it’s just posted there. Like, did they walk away? Did the dogs start barking? Right? And so you can see people are actually hanging out on this checkout page. If I walk away, go grab a glass of water. If you’re like me and you have a squirrel brain and you’re like, oh, I’m walking downstairs to get a glass of water. I’m gonna throw this load to dry. Oh I need to email. So and so back about that podcast, like our brains are going a million miles limit. Oh I never scheduled that email. I’m gonna go do that. You know? Like we just have so many things going on that by the time I come back, if this checkout page is bland and vanilla and doesn’t have any branding, doesn’t have any sales assets on it, then I’m just gonna be like, yeah, whatever, close this. It’s not worth the very limited bandwidth that my mind has. And so I’ll just close it and forget it. And that’s the end of it. And so when we tab park things, right. If when we come back to them, they’re not compelling if it’s just like, whatever we close it. And that’s it sale lost, came over.
Lanie Lamarre (07:23):
Yeah. I’ve seen people not have sales pages and just have a really sweet checkout page with all of the information on there. And it’s like one less thing, one less barrier for people to give you their money essentially, or to sign up for your thing. And yeah,
Dama Jue (07:40):
I’m one of those
Lanie Lamarre (07:40):
People, like I can think the last three purchases I made online, they were clearly just checkout pages. Mm-hmm that were set up as sales page. They told me what I needed to know and get out.
Dama Jue (07:49):
Right. Oh. And I’m, I’m one of those people I have long form sales pages, but mainly I have mid form sales pages that are like medium long because people just wanna know the dead nitty gritty. Right. Yeah. But I also have sold from checkouts that are a little judged up. I cannot be a plain checkout page. You need to give people some contacts of what’s included, but I’ve absolutely made thousands of dollars selling straight from a checkout. And in fact, I have a template shop, fourth ride cart. That is just like, here you go. Wanna just get an idea out the door, use one of these pages that were designed just for that. It’s almost like the sales page condensed to just one little screen of like, here’s what you need to know go. Yeah. And when you’re ready, you can expand that out to a full sales page, but I’ve definitely sold just some checkouts.
Lanie Lamarre (08:31):
I, how brilliant is that when you’re, you know, testing a product or something or testing an idea to see, would people even buy this thing, uh, before you go in and not only create the whole product, build the whole sales page and all the, the ed up the church up stuff, when really you just need to validate that idea.
Dama Jue (08:46):
Absolutely. And it works really nicely with your warm audience, with your email list. Like they know you, they know that you’re smart, you know, your stuff, they read your emails, but they, and so they don’t necessarily need all the rigmarole of like, this is for the co list of cold leads, a stranger who stumble tumbles in off the street and finds the sales page. These are for your people. And so I’ve absolutely sold from checkout and it works best with your email list. And it’s just like, y’all know what I’m good for. Let’s roll. And you know, here’s the thing, are you coming?
Lanie Lamarre (09:14):
So what are the things that you would say are biggest lost opportunities in a checkout page that people can easily tweak or optimize that, that you’ve seen the biggest results or differences from?
Dama Jue (09:26):
Yeah, absolutely. So I have, let’s say three must haves that a checkout page just needs, like if you don’t have this go fix now the product or the offer name needs to be on there and loud and clear, you know how sometimes checkouts it’s like, it looks like a receipt. Like it’s very normal print. Very small.
Lanie Lamarre (09:44):
Dama Jue (09:44):
Yeah. That is, that is insufficient. My friends that is not sufficient,
Lanie Lamarre (09:48):
Especially with what you’re saying with this tab, hoarding is something I never really put any thought into, but you’re totally right. What was this for? Anyway, of course you need to know,
Dama Jue (09:57):
Right. What on earth is this? And if it takes even two seconds to find guaranteed, people are gonna click
Lanie Lamarre (10:02):
Off closing that window.
Dama Jue (10:03):
We are so conditioned with 62nd audio video. Now it’s 32nd video. Now it’s like 15 second video. And the current trend is seven second reels on Instagram. Our attention span is so short and there’s so much vine for our attention that if you are not right up front, very crystal clear what this offer is. Get out. We’re just gonna close the tab. I already have 72 other tabs while you’re paying attention. Like I get time to scan this teen tiny, fine print nonsense. Like your product name needs to be loud and clear the, the price and the payment plan options. Obviously, if you’re gonna have a LAR a more expensive product, you know, over several hundred dollars, you, you might wanna have a payment plan, but the price needs to be crystal clear again, not teeny tiny. And then the big thing that I see people missing quite a bit as they use, especially some of the more bold schooly type software is that the checkout is not mobile optimized. It needs to look good on your phone. Oh my gosh.
Lanie Lamarre (11:00):
Dama Jue (11:01):
If you have no idea what your checkouts look like on your phone, like hit pause, and go look at your checkouts of your most popular products. What do they look like on your phone? They need to be mobile optimized. 80% of traffic on average is mobile. So we gotta talk about that.
Lanie Lamarre (11:16):
yeah. And another way to check on that too, is if you’re looking in your analytics for your checkout software and you can see what devices people are using, and people are never checking out on mobile, there’s probably a problem with your mobile traffic. Cause it’s not cause people aren’t buying.
Dama Jue (11:31):
No, it’s exactly that. Yeah. And so if you have no idea what it looks like in mobile, open that page on your phone, or even quicker, if you use like Chrome, right? And you’re looking at your checkout page on desktop, right. Click and click inspect, and then there’s gonna be like a little bar at the top. That’ll let you view things as like an iPhone or an Android or whatever. You can see things as they would look on a phone without even having to get your phone out. And so in 10 seconds you can see is my checkout page mobile optimized. So I think the biggest thing is have your offer name loud and clear and make sure that it’s mobile optimized because sometimes things overlap funny and ain’t nobody got time for that. They’re just gonna close.
Lanie Lamarre (12:08):
It’ll also impact your searchability. Mm-hmm because if you are not, if your checkout page isn’t mobile optimized people, won’t be able to find your checkout page on a Google search. If they already know what they want and they’re looking for, right. You will not come up.
Dama Jue (12:21):
Right. Yeah. And I, I think that that is definitely looking long term, but in the immediate, for sure if I can’t read it or if I can’t click the button or if it’s not reading properly, like forget it. I gotta go. I don’t have time for this.
Lanie Lamarre (12:35):
Dama Jue (12:36):
Yeah. So I would say the offer name and mobile optimize are the two biggest must, must, must haves. And your price needs to be on there clearly. And then I like to add two or three, but I call conversion boosters. And so things that you already have them and they can make such a difference. So let me share some of my favorites, a product mockup, I guarantee you’ve already got that on your sales page, throw the mockup on your checkout as well. Right? People love a visual reminder of what they’re buying and what they’re getting. Especially if you have one of those mockups, that’s like, here’s this here’s this here’s, this here’s this, you know, it really gives an overview of what they’re getting. Throw that mock up on your checkout page. I I’m always shocked when I don’t see them. I’m like, why your designer already made this graphic?
Dama Jue (13:16):
Or you made this graphic. Why did you not just slap it on the checkout page so easy? And then you can add a few other things. If you have a short and snappy testimonial, I know that on your long form sales page, you probably have these beautiful long gushing novel type testimonials. You might even have video. Those don’t have place on a checkout page. I’m looking at like one sentence, two sentence, like Lenny’s product for air table. Cut my stress in half. Or I saved this much on X, Y, and Z by just switching to this. Like I even actually want it to be no longer than two lines. Like really snappy because people won’t read them. Otherwise mm-hmm one or two short snappy testimonials can make a big difference. Especially if you’ve been tab part, people have walked away or forgotten about the product.
Dama Jue (14:00):
They forgot about your sales emails. They skimed your sales copy days ago. Now it’s just like, oh shoot. Uh, this is closing soon. And they’re looking at the very bare minimum price mock up one or two snappy testimonials that can really go a long way to remind them of the benefits without you having to shout out the benefits all over again. And you can add a few other things, countdown, timers, you can remind them about bonuses. You could do a really quick bullet point list of what’s included. There’s lots of other options and things Fons, which is, seems like such a silly thing. But if they’re a tab hoarder, then yeah. Having a Fon set up on your page can be such a difference. Little things like that can really add up to that. Remember, like, I remember why I saved this page. I remember why I was intrigued by this product. And that is really half of closing deal. It’s just, we have so many things fine for our attention, if you can help them, remember why. Yeah, absolutely makes a difference.
Lanie Lamarre (14:56):
Every time you say something, I’m just going through my own memory of looking at my own stuff, being like, oh yeah, shit, that’s totally bang on. It’s just it’s human behavior. And making sure that your checkout page also matches your regular brand with the Falon and all these other things that you’re just like, this is mm-hmm, just fluid. This just makes it all cohesive.
Dama Jue (15:14):
Absolutely. Yeah. And so I started noticing as I’ve built many funnels for clients, more than happy to throw all their time and attention at the sales page and check out pages were just kind of cast aside. So I started paying attention. I started AB testing. Um, and that’s another reason why I love thrive. Heart is you can AB test checkouts in thrive heart, and it’ll just automatically take care of it for you. And you can design two different ones and see which one is more performant. I love that. And so I started testing things and that’s really what led me to create this kind of collection of proven tested high converting checkout templates. And, and that’s how the thrive cart template shop is born.
Lanie Lamarre (15:49):
So how do people get to spy on these awesome sauce templates actually see this in action because when you see these things, you start getting the envy that I have being like, maybe I should just go back to thrive cart
Dama Jue (16:01):
yeah. Head to thrive, cart template, shop.com. Um, I have lots of trainings there and actually one of my favorite things that I love to send people to is my thrive cart flow. Um, actually shows people this funnel that I built that is using one software, zero zaps. Like I love Zapier API, whatever, but the less I need to pay them the better, the less opportunity for automations to break. Yes, the better. And so my full funnel with multiple levels and all this other stuff is all built in thrive cart. And my course delivery, it’s all in thrive cart. Everything is in thrive cart. So I paid once for this software and it’s just working for me like a boss, apple sauce, as you would say, like it’s just handling all the business, no zaps. A lot of people have asked me about that. And so I send them to my funnel flow and they can actually see the behind the scenes, like with wire frames and all those goodies and the pros and cons of how I’m using thrive cars and they full funnel solution. And you can also see check out my templates and actually creep. I mean, I do full page previews of them. So you can creep on some of these options. And, and if that takes you to a light bulb moment of like, wow, okay, I need to update some of my checkouts, um, go and run with it or, or grab the collection and take the easy
Lanie Lamarre (17:12):
Way I’m going to link to your creep worthy video. in the show notes. I maybe I’ve had this conversation enough with enough people at this point, but I feel like creeping, we’re all doing it. Let’s just admit it. And let’s actually make it easier for people to creep on how we’re operating in our own businesses to sort of share how you can actually streamline things, actually having something that flows as easily as you want it to.
Dama Jue (17:36):
Oh, absolutely. And I’ll be honest. Before I launched the template shop, I went and looked for templates cuz I was like, I don’t wanna have to create this on my own. I’m ready to take the help, but I couldn’t find any good templates. I looked and Googled and I was like, seriously. And I just thought there, this can’t be all there is. And I really couldn’t find anything else. There were either very bland, like chinsy generic ones or they were very Broy and I was like, there has gotta be some kind of chic and converting and high end and beautiful templates out there. And there worked and I was ready to, I was on the creep, you know, I was looking for INPO and I couldn’t find it. So I thought, okay, here I go, let’s go. Let’s do this. And that’s really what came up.
Lanie Lamarre (18:14):
Looks like you’re the one who has to create it.
Dama Jue (18:17):
Yes. Turns out if no one’s gonna do it. Oh, all right. I’ll do it.
Lanie Lamarre (18:20):
Oh, all right. I did the same thing with air table. Like a boss when I was looking to learn more about air table and I really wanted someone to just show me all of it instead of me just staring at it. What is this capable of? Uh, but I couldn’t find anything. And that’s when I created the course in the first place, it feels like a million years ago at this point, just because I couldn’t find anything. So you had to do it yourself. Sometimes. It’s what you have to do.
Dama Jue (18:40):
Sometimes you just gotta put on your big row pants and get out there and do it. But if there are good templates, I’m always happy to grab them, but there just weren’t. So I had to be, I had to be the big girl and go out and launch and do it. But yeah, I invite folks to creep on it, creep on the page, creep on the, the free trainings and all that stuff. I loved creating that training. Something that I’m super proud of. That mini training. It’s 15 minutes long. Yeah. I have to tell you that I have created webinars, but nothing in my life is as hard as creating a 15 minute training because I like to talk and there’s a lot involved and I really wanted to give, give, give, but it, I told folks I’m gonna keep it to 15 minutes because like we talked about earlier, attention pants, attention spans. Right. They’re short. And I know personally, I don’t watch 90 minute webinars. I dunno about you, but I’m just like hashtag anybody got time for that. Yeah. Um, but if I can see a 15 minute training and maybe even launch it on two X with subtitles, like I’m in a hundred percent and um, I think that’s, it was really hard. I’m not gonna lie. So that’s why I think if you haven’t checked it out, you should for sure. Check it out. It it’s, I think it’s a piece of art
Lanie Lamarre (19:41):
. Now, if people wanna creep on you, where are they going to do that?
Dama Jue (19:45):
Yeah. I mainly hang out on Facebook. I mainly hang out in Facebook groups cuz I like to hang out and connect with people. Collaborations are so much a big part of my business and making and networking and making friends. So find me on Facebook. I also, um, am on Instagram for the DMS. I’m not really much of a poster, but I hang out on Instagram. My handle is details, Dotto, DOMA. Um, and I also have the other handle that I use is thrive park company shop. So I’m hang, I hang out on Instagram mainly to take it all in and, and creep, but I’m there for the DMS, but I’m mainly, um, hanging out on Facebook or on email. My FA all my energy really goes to hanging out with people on my email list
Lanie Lamarre (20:23):
Where you’re actually connecting and engaging smart lady. Yeah.
Dama Jue (20:27):
I’m living for the replies. I just love it.
Lanie Lamarre (20:29):
I will put links to all these things in the show notes, make it easy for people to click on through to you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for creating the change that we all need. And actually making us think a little bit about those lost opportunities that kind of are totally within grass.
Dama Jue (20:44):
Totally. They were just right there. It’s the low hanging fruit and it’s really not that hard and you don’t have to spend another several thousand dollars to get it right. And to get it and to make a big difference. It
Lanie Lamarre (20:53):
Is always the low hanging fruit that gets you the biggest results. The 80 20 rule
Dama Jue (20:58):
Mm-hmm . I love it.