• LIZ WILCOX Is Proof Of How Low Ticket Can Be High Value and Hella-Profitable

    This is a transcript of episode 64 of the OMGrowth podcast

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    I’m Lanie Lamarre and today’s episode goes long because I have a guest who has way too many valuable things to say about her numbers, how she defines what “good numbers” are for her, and how she markets a low-ticket membership into being all-kinds-of-profitable, not to mention a totally personally gratifying business model. I swear I tried to edit this one down to our usual 10-15 minute format but everytime I was about to cut something out, it felt like I was omitting something important about how Liz Wilcox is hella data-driven in the least complicated way so without further ado…

    Go behind-the-scenes and check out Liz’s membership for just $9

    Lanie Lamarre (00:00):
    Liz Wilcox is our guest today and she speaks quite openly about her rates, her, uh, her growth, her numbers. And I couldn’t really put it all together, how she could offer such a low cost, low ticket membership and be profitable to the extent she has. So I emailed Liz and I said,
    Liz, listen, I’m gonna join your membership. And it’s not necessarily because I want to take on a membership. I just really wanna see how you’re delivering this so that you can be self lip and profitable. And what value are you offering? How are you doing all of this?
    And she’s like, Oh yeah, cool beans. Join. And, um, I think it was like a year ago. I’m still a member , I’m not creeping anymore. I’m just enjoying the content. So, um, that just goes to show the sort of value that you’re delivering in that membership. But tell us more about what you offer, how you offer it, because it is mind blowing the value that you’re able to deliver.

    Liz Wilcox (00:58):
    Uh, thank you so much. I could have said it better myself. uh, if you’re just being introduced to Liz Wilco, I, I hold nothing back. Um, I like to think it’s a good example for especially, uh, women to just own their stuff. The membership. Yeah. So it’s called email marketing membership, hashtag SEO, right. Um, and it’s $9 a month. So I’ll be the first to say it, it is wicked cheap, but it is actually valuable. So I started it in February of 2021 and it was just this way, the way I was thinking of structuring it at the time, of course, you know, goals always change, uh, you know, your vision gets bigger, but at the time I was doing copywriting services and I was just looking to replace some of that income. I knew I didn’t wanna be a copywriter forever. You know, I was a service provider and I always said, what I provide you is amazing my service, eh, not so much.

    Liz Wilcox (01:57):
    Cause I didn’t, you know, I love serving in different capacities. I love groups. That’s another reason why a membership model makes sense for me. And then I was also looking at my numbers. Lenny would be so proud. My email list was growing as about, I think, 800 people at the time. And I just realized there was this big disconnect between my services and the people that were getting on my list, meaning, you know, not, everyone’s gonna be able to afford my services. You know, this business model with one-on-one client work. It’s not what I wanna be doing. It’s not the sustainable model that I want. And there’s also Laney. And I, I think before we hit record, we were talking about, you know, I tend to love like big numbers, like out of this world data. I refuse to accept like the average one to 3% stuff.

    Liz Wilcox (02:42):
    And so I was looking at the percentage of customers in my overall list. And at the time I can’t remember what it was. It was like 10 or 20% for me. That’s not enough if I’m in business, I’m in business to sell you something, not in a nasty way, but like I’ve worked really hard to figure it out what it is you want. So why aren’t you buying? You know, I was looking at how my trip wire is converting. You know, at the time it was like 5%. I was like, what the heck? This thing is genius. And in my head I thought, you know, it’s only $22, that’s so cheap. And then I took it all the way back to when I first started my business. And I thought, well, at the time I didn’t have $22 to spend, like I had to spend that on my WordPress every month or my convert kit.

    Liz Wilcox (03:25):
    Right. And so I thought, what is a number that I can get the maximum amount of customers in form? Because I know if I can sell somebody at $9 or, you know, at X dollars, right. I didn’t have the $9 yet, but if I can sell them at $1, I can sell them for any dollar. Right. The best customer is a repeat customer. I took that to heart. And so I thought, okay, something under 10 bucks is gonna get the maximum amount of customers, which is my number one metric. I just did a workshop on that. And I said, you know, that’s all I care about is the percentage of customers, because I know I’m gonna come up with other ideas and I’m gonna be able to sell them again. And I thought it’s gotta be under 10 bucks because for most people, almost everyone, that’s gonna be a no brainer or it’s at least going to be like, they might have to think about it, but it’s not a scary number where there, okay, Liz, I’ll give you 30 days, you know, I’ll try this out.

    Liz Wilcox (04:18):
    Right. And so for me, that was again, looking at my numbers and thinking of what is my number one metric, why I came up with the $9 and why I came up with it for a membership model, because I thought if I can just slowly replace this client income, you know, slowly build the membership. It doesn’t have to happen all at once. You know, I accepted that slow growth is still growth. Then, you know, one day I’ll be able to retire my services and I can do this thing. And it was also about it’s a newsletter template membership. So that was something I was already creating for clients, writing newsletters for them. This is my third business. I had thousands of newsletters that I’ve written over the years. So it’s not like I would ever not have an idea, right. Like I’m rambling right now.

    Liz Wilcox (05:02):
    I never, I never run out of words. so for me it, it was, you know, all of those things wrapped into one. And then I got a hundred members in the first 30 days. I thought, if I can validate this, you know, 800 folks on my list, if I can get a hundred of them, you know, I can’t remember that exact percentage, but it was enough to make me feel good. And that would be 900 bucks a month, which was about half of my day rate at the time. And I thought, you know, if I can slowly think of it as half a day rate, half a day rate, replacing that for 30 days, like, wow, I’d, you know, I’d have a million dollar business for, you know, an hour or less worth of work a week. And so that really got me fired up. I got those hundred folks in, finished up some client work, and I just started going really, really hard in the membership in a year and a half time. I have well, less than a year and a half time. I have over 1500 members in 15 months. Oh

    Lanie Lamarre (05:55):
    My gosh. I like, I’m listening to you. And I have so many questions. I’m like, oh, stop yourself from interrupting her. Do you still have the trip wire in place? I do. Okay. So you have a trip wire and the membership.

    Liz Wilcox (06:06):
    Yeah. So I have, I have several pro I have lots of products. Like, like I said, I never come. I never not have an idea. Mm-hmm . And so I have the trip wire and that converts, I think right now at about 7%. And then I’ve got an upsell for that. And that seems to be working well, I think in two different places I’m testing and this is, you know, data I need really need to look at now that my leads are coming in steadily. I have an upsell to another product for half off. So altogether it’s like a $40 or an upsell to add the membership. And that’s like $20. I can’t, I don’t know which one’s converting better right now. I think it’s actually the more expensive one without the membership, which is interesting. But you think, oh, well it’s at the beginning stages. They might not be ready to sign up for a membership no matter what the cost is yet.

    Lanie Lamarre (06:52):
    Right. Right. I love what you said too about, I took it back to when I was starting, what is the no brainer price, as opposed to the way I feel like it’s promoted a lot right now, especially when you’re building a membership, when you’re building a group program or something like that, the goal is to make it as bottom line friendly as possible, always focusing on how much money are you getting, as opposed to thinking of where are my ideal clients at this point? And where was I at that point? What would I have been willing to easily invest as opposed to having to sit back and think about it?

    Liz Wilcox (07:24):
    Yeah. I love that. You said, you know, my bottom line, cuz obviously I support two households and one is a thousand miles away. Mm-hmm and I’m a single mom. So my bottom line is very important to me as well, but I wanna be in business for a long time. I’m not here to just make quick cash. Like I have made that transition from how to make money online, to how to have a real business. Right. Which there, there is a distinction there. I think for me because my bottom line is so important. I don’t have money to spend on ads. Going back to your original question about like how the heck is this actually profitable? I have kept my business incredibly lean. The membership itself was on Google drive, which I was already paying for until I hit a thousand members. It was, it was 13 months. So it just got off of Google drive. I just spent, you know, money to get it onto my actual website to be an actual membership site.

    Lanie Lamarre (08:19):

    Liz Wilcox (08:20):
    But I had over a thousand, you know, I had over a thousand members until I spent that money. I think I spent like $500 to get someone to build the bones. And so I’m all about keeping things lean. You know, I had an assistant very on and off maybe paying, you know, a couple hundred dollars a month up until, uh, you know, mid-March of 20, 22. So again like 13 months, it wasn’t until I really felt like this is an established product. You know, I’ve got a thousand people in here. Sure. You know, of course there’s a churn rate, but it’s obvious, you know, I’m gaining momentum on this. You know, I wasn’t investing in a VA, like everyone tells, oh, you deserve to have quality time with which is true. And I believe, but at the end of the day, I wanna be in business for a long time. So I need to save a lot of money, save a lot of cash in case something happens and I’m not running ads. I’ve never run ads again. I never had the privilege of having money to run ads. And so I’ve spent a lot of time coming on podcasts like this talking, I think last year I did over 50 podcast interviews and over 20 like private trainings or speaking engagements, do

    Lanie Lamarre (09:24):
    You have great affiliate relationships?

    Liz Wilcox (09:26):
    Yes. And I have a lot at this point I just looked this morning. I have over 430 affiliates. I think about 120 are making sales actively. But again, it was all about how do I keep my bottom line? My bottom line? Yes, I need money and I need, and I need quite a bit, you know, I, I have two rents, two utility bills, like the first of the month is not fun for list woke up, uh, woke um, now, now, um, bone dogs in harmony is in the background. Wake up, wake up, wake up. Did

    Lanie Lamarre (10:00):
    You have a little Phil Collins? Uh, version of it with the video?

    Liz Wilcox (10:03):
    Oh yeah. Forgot about that. Anyway. Uh, we’re talking, we’re talking about, uh, business here. you dunno me. I’m very like music is very much ingrained in my business. I have in sync on the, in the background. Um, yeah. Anyway, so the bottom line is very important, but for me, because I know I need as much cash as possible. I’ve looked for ways that maybe we’ a little more work building, real relationships, getting, you know, as many affiliates as possible, reaching out, trying to get on podcasts, putting myself out there, building a signature talk that I can give over and over, but it’s always been like looking 1, 2, 3, 10 years into the future. And I know this is what you need to create a business. And so now I’m seeing all that work pay off. And I know like the growth is just exponential at this point. It’s crazy.

    Lanie Lamarre (10:57):
    Yeah. You get the services going, get the experience and the relationships and the sort of street cred, if you will, or the online street cred, the internet cred, which by the way, getting a hundred people to buy a product when your list is 800 people, those are amazing conversion rates. That’s kind of unheard of. So kudos to you for doing that. That means you’re really nurturing your list in a way that is completely out of this world. And that’s what you’re teaching in the membership. So it’s very much a practice which you preach, but you do have a numbers game in front of you in order to grow and being able to pull back on the services and pull forward in a slow sort of sustainable way, growing with your membership size. Um, as opposed to being like, okay, I’m going to build a group program overnight, that’s going to make a million dollars. Um, I’m gonna invest all this money. I’m gonna have this huge team. Uh, that’s not at all what you did. And yet you’re still lining yourself up for, in the long term being right alongside those same people, maybe ahead, cuz you don’t have all the overhead. Right.

    Liz Wilcox (11:56):
    I don’t have a lot of overhead. I mean, even the site, you know, I didn’t go with Kajabi or teachable or anything cuz they charge fees. Right. And so I built it on my own web, well, cherry ward built it on my own website. She helped me build out the bones and she was actually a member. A lot of the things, uh, that I pay for are members. And that again, like of course that’s just a Goodwill type of thing, but you know, from a strategic point, you know, if I’m paying them, they’re gonna pay me. Right. And so it’s just this, how can I help my community and help myself keep my overhead low? I’m all about keeping things very lean. I sing. My bookkeeper is my best friend. I swear she’s changed my whole life. And it was, there was a moment in December of 2020.

    Liz Wilcox (12:45):
    I just had my first full year of copywriting. And at the time we were doing the profit first model of, you know, give myself 50% and you know, the rest goes to whatever and you know, some months I was making a lot of money, you know, over five figures, you know, other months it was kind of famine, right. Fe famine type of thing. Yeah. But I was spending anything. She was giving me right in my personal bank account. I was like, oh I got it. I’m rich. I’m doing it. Look mom, you know? Um, yeah, I’m gonna pay for dinner. Uh, but I could have been, you know, maybe investing in some stocks or something. And so I told her, I said, this is how much money I need and I’ll be at full disclosure. I was like, I need $3,400 a month. Mm-hmm .

    Liz Wilcox (13:27):
    And that was like to the penny, you know, I grew up poor. I have a lot of financial insecurity. Like that’s what you gotta know about me, what I need the bare minimum to survive. Like please hide the rest of, from me. Like on your end you can continue to do the 50%. I said, but you know, just paying me that $1,700 every two weeks, like just hide the rest from me. I don’t wanna do copywriting forever. I knew I wanted a business that just sold products. Right. I came from the blogging world. I knew that’s what I like. And so now, and she, again, numbers, girl, right? She’s like right now some months you don’t make that much. I was like, I’m gonna do it. Just let’s just do this. And I was able to actually save an entire year’s worth of salary, doing that, hiding that money from myself and hiding it from the business.

    Liz Wilcox (14:15):
    You know, it was like, I never really logged in, you know, other than I had a good sale. And I was like, Ooh, I just wanna see that number. She wasn’t ever telling me how much exactly was left over. We would meet once a month. And she said, oh yeah, you know, you’re building, you’re building. And it was around October that I thought, okay, am I close to a year? I was only like halfway. So I was paying myself about $38,000 a year. You know, I had less than 20 saved. And I was like, okay, what can I do? What can I do? And that’s when I came up with the model of like someone paying for a year of the membership. So I could reduce that churn rate and have guaranteed cash in the bank for my business and myself and that sold like crazy and continues to sell like crazy.

    Lanie Lamarre (15:00):
    So you have this recurring income with your membership, people who pay monthly, but you still have a launch model built into your processes by way of having sort of an annual sale. Maybe it’s a semi-annual.

    Liz Wilcox (15:14):
    Yeah. Cuz I love launching. I’m one of those. not everybody does, but I, if you don’t know me again, like just Google me. You’ll see. You’ll be like, oh yeah, that’s the launch girl. that’s the launch girl like right now I’m wearing like a rainbow, like 1970 vintage sweater with like a rainbow bandana. Like I love, I love getting to know people. I obviously love talking and I love launching because it’s just exciting. Especially for a kid that thought she was gonna have to work two jobs, the rest of her life, like launching. And I’m just gonna say like making that cash and knowing that I’m creating something, especially with the membership, knowing that I created something that actually helps people for a price that doesn’t feel shitty for anybody like that. Freaking awesome. I love selling it. It’s like, yes, let’s do this thing.

    Liz Wilcox (16:04):
    Yeah. The yearly I’m actually doing it. I do it twice a year now. And then I’m having a Midsummer flash sale. It’s basically you buy a year of the membership nine times 12, 108 bucks. And I give you all my other products for free kind of like Costco, right? You get in for 60 bucks and you basically buy everything at cost. Right? Of course they have physical products. And so they can’t just give you everything, but they sell it basically at cost and they actually lose money on their hot dogs. When I heard that, that actually gave me the idea for my membership, uh, model, when I heard they were losing money on a lot of their products. But the majority of their profit was the membership itself. Like that fee. I thought, well, okay, my products are digital. If they’re willing to lose money on the back end to get all those front end, you know, membership sales and they’re a giant international company, I was like, what the heck am I doing? You know? Right. I could do that too. There are millions of people that are entrepreneurs or you know, wanna start businesses. This is a huge pond that I feel like no one is trying to cast this big of a net. I’ll be the one, I’ll be the one I’ll do it.

    Lanie Lamarre (17:16):
    But you also have the advantage where it’s, you know, your numbers. I don’t wanna call it an advantage. You put the work into knowing your numbers where you know, what your churn rate is. So, you know, when people are sort of going to get off of the membership model, so there’s a lot more incentive to be able to offer the, Hey, why don’t you just join us for the year when somebody might have actually three months down the line might have actually unsubscribed from your group program, you’re actually able to get them to commit further

    Liz Wilcox (17:43):
    100% and that great point Laney. So what she’s saying about the churn rate again, coming from just full disclosure, that financial insecurity and thinking, you know, I’m always thinking, how am I getting the rent pay this month? It used to be I’m safe this week. I’m safe this week. Like in college, one time my roommate threw away a pizza because it was four days old and I had like two slices left. She said, oh, that was old. And I literally started crying. I was like, that’s all the food I have to eat for the next five days. And now it’s gone. Like, that’s the kind of insecurity I’m coming from. So right. So these are strategies, you know, at the end of the day, like I, you know, I want more sales, but it’s just also coming from, what am I trying to say? Now? I’m kind of rambling, but

    Lanie Lamarre (18:24):
    No, no. You’re talking about your client lifetime value.

    Liz Wilcox (18:27):
    Yeah. You, you can build a business where you belong. That makes you feel safe, a model that makes you feel really good and delights you to sell it and also makes you feel safe and secure. Right. Launching might. It might not be that model that might feel scary to you or membership, you know, that might feel like, oh, I don’t wanna create content all the time, stuff like that. So I just encourage you to really look within and create a model that makes sense for you

    Lanie Lamarre (18:53):
    And also to like go with something that you’re comfortable with from where you are. Because once you start to know your numbers with your churn rate, with your client, lifetime value, being able to sort of up that for yourself while people are still seeing your product as valuable and then continuing to get that value from people like I’m a member and I’m for sure going to be getting in on the annual because it’s like, why am I, why am I paying monthly when I can just get in on the annual,

    Liz Wilcox (19:18):
    Hey, y’all just heard it. I just made a stamp tomato. Sam was the add to Ching whoever’s added

    Lanie Lamarre (19:27):

    Liz Wilcox (19:28):
    Yeah. And so with the turn rate, I noticed people that were in my universe stayed five or six months, or they just were not dropping off at all. They were like all, all in with email. And then I noticed with affiliates, people were staying about three or four months. So if they came in through Laney or something, they, you know, they’d stay a few months and then, you know, forget about it. Right. And so, yeah, I thought like, how the heck do I just nip that in the bud? Right? Like, I’ve gotta get rid of that. I, I need this cash flow. And I believe like I’m really gonna help them create a real business. And so that’s, you know, came up with a yearly and it went off really well. I said, okay, if I could sell a hundred on black Friday, you know, that’s like 10 or $12,000 or something.

    Liz Wilcox (20:14):
    And like, whoa, wouldn’t that be like, just freaking crazy. And so I sent out an email that said, I’m only gonna sell a hundred of these. And I, I gave, you know, spiel and I sold out within two hours. And that’s when I knew again, it’s, everything’s a beta, right? Everything’s a test. That’s when I knew I was like, oh snap, this is gonna be the launch thing. This is the thing that’s gonna right. Get me the cash flow I need, you know, when I need it. Right. Cause you can, I love with the membership model, you can do these kind of flash sales every so often get a lump of cash. For me, it was about retiring my services and I felt, I felt so safe in that moment of, okay, now I’ve just secured, you know, a hundred people for a year. I can take that $12,000 and pay for my mastermind for an entire next year or whatever it is.

    Liz Wilcox (21:04):
    Right. That was like in my brain, you know, that Bill’s checked off for a year. Then I ran it again in a few weeks cuz everyone was pissed that they missed the sale. Everyone was like, whoa lady. So then I’m like a Saturday afternoon. And so I ran it again. Actually I ran the numbers for you. So I had 233 people that said like, yes, I’d be interested in this sale. Again. I made like a mini quick wait list. Like, Hey, I’m gonna open this again in the next few weeks. You know, I said, I was only gonna sell a hundred. I’m not gonna open it again right away. Let me figure out what worked, what didn’t I had 231 people on the wait list and on that wait list, I had 160 of them buy. Wow. So that’s like a 69% conversion rate I

    Lanie Lamarre (21:44):
    Think. Yeah.

    Liz Wilcox (21:45):
    so that’s really good. And then I had, I also, I opened it up to affiliates to sell and so I made an additional 70 sales from affiliates and they got 20% of that. So about 20 bucks, 21 bucks. So in total I sold 233 in December. So I more than doubled that hundred that I had sold. And I don’t know about you, but that was the first time in my life I’d ever made that much money at once. It took me an entire Q1 of 2021. I made that exact amount that I had I made in those three days.

    Lanie Lamarre (22:17):
    Wow. Yeah.

    Liz Wilcox (22:18):
    So just consistent action. You know, the power of the email list, the power of building relationships, finding that offer, that feels good to you

    Lanie Lamarre (22:26):
    And the power of providing value.

    Liz Wilcox (22:29):
    Yeah. Oh yeah. And the membership is awesome. I, it really is valuable.

    Lanie Lamarre (22:33):
    right. Let’s talk about the membership because you have monthly Q and a calls where you’re actually on the call. Yeah. You Liz Wilco. I can ask any question. I want, um, you have templates with videos that go with

    Liz Wilcox (22:46):
    Them. Yeah. Yeah. so I love doing the Q and a, I know a lot of people, even when I built the membership, I was like, oh, should I put live Q and a? And I was like, yeah, I’m just gonna put it so I can get these a hundred people. Maybe I’ll maybe I’ll take it off if it’s too much work. But the Q and a is literally my favorite thing. I think one time I stayed for like two and a half hours. I love email. And if you’re gonna come at me with an email question, like I’m, I’m gonna be so no one in my real life, like wants to talk about email marketing. So if you’re gonna come at me with a

    Lanie Lamarre (23:17):
    Question, change these with numbers.

    Liz Wilcox (23:19):
    Yeah. Amen. Amen. You get it, you get it. And so like, I really wanna serve people when I realized I could make money with email. I was like, oh my gosh, guys, these rich folks have been lying to us. Like it’s time to grab the bag. like, let’s go, let me teach you what I did. And so that it’s that fervor behind it as well. And so even if it’s one person on the call or two people, if I see that spark in them, they’re like, yeah, Liz, I believe you. I believe this can work for me too. Like, I’m gonna give it my all. And given that I can do this for the max amount of people for such an incredible price, it feels so good to me to serve. And nowadays pretty much my membership is all that I do. Right. Like I love helping a lot of people. I don’t like the one on one client work as much. So it makes sense for me. Yeah. And then the templates, you know, and they’re actual templates, these are not copywriter swipes of, you know, emails that I wrote and you just take and I pray for you. Um, you know, you know what, I, we all know what I’m talking about.

    Lanie Lamarre (24:26):
    Totally completely.

    Liz Wilcox (24:27):
    Um, I actually write templates, like think of it like Madlibs, right? Like fill in the blank here. And I give you a video walkthrough. It’s usually three to five minutes where I’m actually explaining why the heck you would want to write an email like this. And depending on your personality, your business, your tone and your comfortability, I take all of those into consideration and I walk you through the template. And then I do give you swipes like a plus examples of what it would look like. So I think last week I wrote it from the perspective of a pediatrician, right. And then the second one, I wrote it from the perspective of like a photographer and these are actual members in the group. right. So if you email me, you’re probably gonna be top of mind. So you’re probably gonna be in the next swipe.

    Liz Wilcox (25:09):
    so, I mean, there’s just so many people and I’m also learning that I’m a bit of a contrarian. So if someone tells me like, oh, you can’t do that. You have to niche down. You’ve gotta serve only bloggers. You know, there’s no way this can work for everybody. I’m thinking of ways. Like, you know, I’m like Einstein with the chalkboard in the background with the math equations. Like how can we make this work? How can we make this work? Like, how can I don’t understand, this is me on my soapbox now. Like how can you spout advice about being inclusive and then say you can’t be for everybody. And of course I know not everyone is for Liz Wilcox. If you’re in the, to the Backstreet boys really hard, you’re probably not gonna like me. Um, but at the end of the day, like I’m really trying to create content. That makes sense for the maximum amount of people. Yeah. I, I love the membership. I’d love for anyone to join that thinks like, yeah. You know, I believe everybody, when they say email marketing is really lucrative, like, come in, let me show you.

    Lanie Lamarre (26:07):
    Absolutely. We’ll have a link in the show notes to come join both myself and Liz because I am a very proud member. And like I said, you let it slip that there is going to be an annual SI coming up. So I, this is really the approach I recommend with your product specifically the little $9 investment, get in, see what it is. And if you’re dazzled, not if, when, when you’re dazzled, then you can go in and get the annual because it really makes all the sense in the world. Uh, you don’t offer being able to buy the subscription for the year because I, we talked about this where I’m like, it just makes more sense to buy it for the year. And you’re like, well, you’re gonna have to wait. Like everybody else,

    Liz Wilcox (26:45):
    You have to wait. Yeah. I was like, well, I there’s no like back door, VIP pass.

    Lanie Lamarre (26:50):
    Yeah. You have to wait. so I’ve been waiting and it’s coming up soon.

    Liz Wilcox (26:54):
    Yeah. And with the membership or with the yearly, for a year, you get everything inside the membership for a year, but then you get all my other products. So all my trainings, like anything that’s existing, but also anything that I create for the next 365 days. So Laney attended a workshop last month that I did about the current state of open rates and how to do your email metrics. And you know, some people paid for it. It was 50 bucks, but if you’re a yearly member, you don’t have to pay for anything for an entire year. Again, going to like that Costco model of like, I’m really just gathering the membership fee and then you get access to everything. And I actually do live trainings every other month. And then I, I’ve got so many about how to get people to actually care, to open your emails, list, building the basics of email marketing,

    Lanie Lamarre (27:45):
    Your guests.

    Liz Wilcox (27:46):
    Yeah. Lots of things. Lots of things. I’ve got a whole list of things I’m gonna, I’ve got the whole year planned out. I’m gonna do a, a black Friday training and you know, you’ll get black Friday swipes and templates and everything. You know, when you get the yearly, you don’t ever have to buy anything from me again for the next year.

    Lanie Lamarre (28:04):
    But what if people wanna follow you? Where are they gonna do that?

    Liz Wilcox (28:06):
    Yeah. Thanks for asking. um, of course I’m an email marketer. I would love to have you on my email list. That’s the main place where I hang out. Um, you can go to Liz in the top right hand corner. There’s a hot pink button. It says free email swipe. So if you’re like, oh, I’m not ready to commit quite yet. You can get in there. You can see how I teach. You can get my welcome sequence. Three newsletter, examples, and 52 subject lines completely for free. And I will tell you, when you sign up for the welcome sequence, you will get my infamous, can I have $9 email? That’s how I launched the membership. And you’ll see a little bit of my style, a little bit of my vision for you and my value system that I think will be really fun and feel free to totally swipe that email. I saw somebody launched a $9 membership two days ago and used my can I have $9 email. And it just made my whole freaking day

    Lanie Lamarre (28:59):
    if ever I go down that road, I’m 100% swiping that email. I love the way you do business Liz, you know this, but it should be spread across as far and wide as possible because it’s really refreshing to see the way you’re doing business and how successful you are at doing it.

    Liz Wilcox (29:17):
    Yeah. Thank you so much, Lanie. This was so fun. Thank you.

    Lanie Lamarre (29:19):

    Go behind-the-scenes and check out Liz’s membership for just $9


  • Why Your CHECKOUT PAGE Is Low-Lying Fruit For Better Results with DAMA JUE

    This is a transcript of episode 64 of the OMGrowth podcast

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    I’m Lanie Lamarre and here’s the problem with having great guests like Dama Jue: you can talk to them for hours about really cool, insightful ways to optimize your results and bottom line, and this makes it nearly impossible to edit those episodes down to the usual 10-15 minute format. Miss Dama was struggling with a sore throat on this one but something she definitely does NOT struggle with is getting us all to re-think the low-lying fruit for seeing more and better sales conversions, and why we can’t afford to be as complacent with accepting payments as maybe we have been.

    Dama Jue (00:00):
    I map out all my products. I map out my, you know, when you have days where you’re like, Ooh, I’m just a full of ideas. I’m gonna, I need to write it down. I do that in whimsical because then I can add branches and like, they turn into mind maps and then those mind maps turn into course structures. And then I go through and check them off as I do, as I record them. And as I produce them and as I create the page, like, it’s just whimsical is whoa.

    Lanie Lamarre (00:24):
    Oh my God, stop it. That’s so like that, those sorts of tools are straight up flirting with me. I was just talking to, oh, I was talking to Diane Mayer recently. Mm-hmm, showing her built where it will show you any website that you want and show you like how it was built, what plugins they’re using, what they have installed, what tracking, and it show you for yourself. And it’ll show you for any domain that you enter. And I’ll give you the timelines of like, when they installed it, when they didn’t, uh, uninstalled it. And you’re like, oh my God, this is

    Dama Jue (00:53):
    All I love you. And built with, to creep on things, to creep on people, to creep on just like, this is so good. How are they doing this? Oh, we big fan.

    Lanie Lamarre (01:01):
    There’s just so many really cool tools out there, but oh totally DMA chew. You are going to talk to us today. Not about all the cool tools you know about, but about, uh, checkout pages, which is on its own cool tool that we don’t think enough about.

    Dama Jue (01:17):
    Oh, it’s totally the for forget the forgotten middle child, like a hundred percent.

    Lanie Lamarre (01:20):
    Yeah, for totally. This is where they’re literally hitting the pay now or buy now button. And yet we are just using what everyone else is using. We spend all this time on sales pages on writing the perfect copy on getting the perfect images on the colors and the buttons and the, this and that. And you, when it comes time to actually get that commitment, we’re just like, yeah, the standard thing is fine.

    Dama Jue (01:41):
    Oh totally. You would not believe how many. So I use thrive cart. Um, and there’s this standard like greenish color that they have as like their default checkout button color, you would not believe how many checkouts I see with that generic, teal color. There’s no info on the page. And I’m just like, oh baby, you’re just, you’re just missing out so much here. And there’s just such a little thing, a few little things you can do that can have a big impact. But yeah, like you said, people treat sales pages. They are absolutely the Regina George of like your funnel, right? Your sales page is everything. Everybody cares about how she’s dressed, what she’s wearing, what she’s saying and like what your copy is on your sales page. And the design. I have had clients who are more than happy to throw thousands of dollars at the copy.

    Dama Jue (02:29):
    Thousands of dollars at the sales page design. And now I’m not gonna say there’s anything wrong with that. It’s important, right? It’s your number one, selling asset. You’re investing in revenue when you really focus on those on that page. But it’s like saying you picked out the perfect dress and you just walk in and you’re ratty like slippers, you know, like it’s missing out on taking it to the next level with your checkout page. It’s just, what are you doing, girl? Like, I’m gonna look down and see that you came. And you’re like, ratty flip Flo said, you’re wearing this fabulous gown. Like it’s just, you’re missing out.

    Lanie Lamarre (03:01):
    I totally get where that thought process comes in or doesn’t come in. Because again, yeah, we’re always talking about the sales page and most platforms like I use Kartra I used to use thrive cart. Um, when I had, you know, my everything separate, but I’m all in one with Kartra now. But if I were to leave that I’ve thought long and hard multiple times to go back to thrive card, just because it seems to be a lot more customizable than it used to be when I was with it. And typically platforms don’t allow you to customize a checkout page, which is why we’re just so used to, this is what checkout pages look like. Mm-hmm,

    Dama Jue (03:35):
    super simple. Here’s the buy now button. Here’s where you put your credit card info. Very simple. And the thing is, is that what I found is that if you’ve ever used a software called Haja, which is like, where you can actually see how people kick in your sales page, and if you’ve ever done that, you’ll notice that there are two kinds of people. People who read every word yeah. On the sales page, they read every word they, you can see as they track with their mouse. Like they, you can see them reading every word. And then there’s the other people who read, read the headline, look for the first, take tummy, more button. And they jump down to the stack. They read the stack, they read what’s included. They wanna know the price. And then that’s it. You might have some people spend seven to 10 minutes on a sales page.

    Dama Jue (04:19):
    Let me just tell you that’s the very mm-hmm that’s uncommon. Most people will not read every word of your assiduously carefully ho crafted sales copy. They’re just not most people are like, mm-hmm okay. What’s the price. Yeah. And what’s included. Um, and so they always wanna see the mockup. They wanna see what’s included like bullet points, like very nitty gritty. And then if they’re intrigued, they may scroll on down to testimonials. Um, they may skim those. They may skim the bonus section. Those are popular, but most people, and I wanna say it’s varied depending on the audience, but I wanna say higher than 70% as a ballpark. Um, let me jump to the bottom cuz that’s what I care about. I want the numbers and I want what’s included. Let’s go. And then if they’re interested, they’re checking and going to the checkout page and where the checkout page can fall down on the job is if it’s bland, if it doesn’t have any additional info, because I don’t know about you, but I’m a tab hoarder. And before I was an entrepreneur, I would like have two, three tabs open. And that was it.

    Lanie Lamarre (05:22):
    You’re looking at my screen. How could you access it?

    Dama Jue (05:25):
    Right? And so like, now I will have anywhere like 30 tabs open is pretty like modest for me. That’s pretty minimal. I can have anywhere to, up to like 200 tabs open. And so what matters is what did I leave open in a tab? And the reason I leave things open a tab is cause I’m gonna come back to ’em, I’m a procrastinator. I’m the kind of person who’s gonna wait till the last minute I’ve got other things going on in my business that are hotter fires. So I’m not gonna decide if I wanna buy this program right now, but I’m gonna go ahead and leave it open in a tab. Cuz I promise I’ll come back to it. Right. I may or may not. But there are a couple things that are gonna help me decide, do I still want this thing? And often the checkout page can be one of them.

    Lanie Lamarre (06:05):
    No kidding. I never even thought of that. But you were so right about that where you just keep that page open and you don’t actually follow through. And then if it doesn’t resonate with you, when you go back to it or if it doesn’t have that same like wow factor that you got on the sales page, you might just close that tab.

    Dama Jue (06:20):
    Right? Exactly. So, because I’m a data nerd, like you, I see how long people are on a page. I see how long I, you can see that data right in your analytics. So

    Lanie Lamarre (06:30):
    Be like, what are you doing 20 minutes? I

    Dama Jue (06:31):
    Know like you just, it’s just posted there. Like, did they walk away? Did the dogs start barking? Right? And so you can see people are actually hanging out on this checkout page. If I walk away, go grab a glass of water. If you’re like me and you have a squirrel brain and you’re like, oh, I’m walking downstairs to get a glass of water. I’m gonna throw this load to dry. Oh I need to email. So and so back about that podcast, like our brains are going a million miles limit. Oh I never scheduled that email. I’m gonna go do that. You know? Like we just have so many things going on that by the time I come back, if this checkout page is bland and vanilla and doesn’t have any branding, doesn’t have any sales assets on it, then I’m just gonna be like, yeah, whatever, close this. It’s not worth the very limited bandwidth that my mind has. And so I’ll just close it and forget it. And that’s the end of it. And so when we tab park things, right. If when we come back to them, they’re not compelling if it’s just like, whatever we close it. And that’s it sale lost, came over.

    Lanie Lamarre (07:23):
    Yeah. I’ve seen people not have sales pages and just have a really sweet checkout page with all of the information on there. And it’s like one less thing, one less barrier for people to give you their money essentially, or to sign up for your thing. And yeah,

    Dama Jue (07:40):
    I’m one of those

    Lanie Lamarre (07:40):
    People, like I can think the last three purchases I made online, they were clearly just checkout pages. Mm-hmm that were set up as sales page. They told me what I needed to know and get out.

    Dama Jue (07:49):
    Right. Oh. And I’m, I’m one of those people I have long form sales pages, but mainly I have mid form sales pages that are like medium long because people just wanna know the dead nitty gritty. Right. Yeah. But I also have sold from checkouts that are a little judged up. I cannot be a plain checkout page. You need to give people some contacts of what’s included, but I’ve absolutely made thousands of dollars selling straight from a checkout. And in fact, I have a template shop, fourth ride cart. That is just like, here you go. Wanna just get an idea out the door, use one of these pages that were designed just for that. It’s almost like the sales page condensed to just one little screen of like, here’s what you need to know go. Yeah. And when you’re ready, you can expand that out to a full sales page, but I’ve definitely sold just some checkouts.

    Lanie Lamarre (08:31):
    I, how brilliant is that when you’re, you know, testing a product or something or testing an idea to see, would people even buy this thing, uh, before you go in and not only create the whole product, build the whole sales page and all the, the ed up the church up stuff, when really you just need to validate that idea.

    Dama Jue (08:46):
    Absolutely. And it works really nicely with your warm audience, with your email list. Like they know you, they know that you’re smart, you know, your stuff, they read your emails, but they, and so they don’t necessarily need all the rigmarole of like, this is for the co list of cold leads, a stranger who stumble tumbles in off the street and finds the sales page. These are for your people. And so I’ve absolutely sold from checkout and it works best with your email list. And it’s just like, y’all know what I’m good for. Let’s roll. And you know, here’s the thing, are you coming?

    Lanie Lamarre (09:14):
    So what are the things that you would say are biggest lost opportunities in a checkout page that people can easily tweak or optimize that, that you’ve seen the biggest results or differences from?

    Dama Jue (09:26):
    Yeah, absolutely. So I have, let’s say three must haves that a checkout page just needs, like if you don’t have this go fix now the product or the offer name needs to be on there and loud and clear, you know how sometimes checkouts it’s like, it looks like a receipt. Like it’s very normal print. Very small.

    Lanie Lamarre (09:44):

    Dama Jue (09:44):
    Yeah. That is, that is insufficient. My friends that is not sufficient,

    Lanie Lamarre (09:48):
    Especially with what you’re saying with this tab, hoarding is something I never really put any thought into, but you’re totally right. What was this for? Anyway, of course you need to know,

    Dama Jue (09:57):
    Right. What on earth is this? And if it takes even two seconds to find guaranteed, people are gonna click

    Lanie Lamarre (10:02):
    Off closing that window.

    Dama Jue (10:03):
    We are so conditioned with 62nd audio video. Now it’s 32nd video. Now it’s like 15 second video. And the current trend is seven second reels on Instagram. Our attention span is so short and there’s so much vine for our attention that if you are not right up front, very crystal clear what this offer is. Get out. We’re just gonna close the tab. I already have 72 other tabs while you’re paying attention. Like I get time to scan this teen tiny, fine print nonsense. Like your product name needs to be loud and clear the, the price and the payment plan options. Obviously, if you’re gonna have a LAR a more expensive product, you know, over several hundred dollars, you, you might wanna have a payment plan, but the price needs to be crystal clear again, not teeny tiny. And then the big thing that I see people missing quite a bit as they use, especially some of the more bold schooly type software is that the checkout is not mobile optimized. It needs to look good on your phone. Oh my gosh.

    Lanie Lamarre (11:00):

    Dama Jue (11:01):
    If you have no idea what your checkouts look like on your phone, like hit pause, and go look at your checkouts of your most popular products. What do they look like on your phone? They need to be mobile optimized. 80% of traffic on average is mobile. So we gotta talk about that.

    Lanie Lamarre (11:16):
    yeah. And another way to check on that too, is if you’re looking in your analytics for your checkout software and you can see what devices people are using, and people are never checking out on mobile, there’s probably a problem with your mobile traffic. Cause it’s not cause people aren’t buying.

    Dama Jue (11:31):
    No, it’s exactly that. Yeah. And so if you have no idea what it looks like in mobile, open that page on your phone, or even quicker, if you use like Chrome, right? And you’re looking at your checkout page on desktop, right. Click and click inspect, and then there’s gonna be like a little bar at the top. That’ll let you view things as like an iPhone or an Android or whatever. You can see things as they would look on a phone without even having to get your phone out. And so in 10 seconds you can see is my checkout page mobile optimized. So I think the biggest thing is have your offer name loud and clear and make sure that it’s mobile optimized because sometimes things overlap funny and ain’t nobody got time for that. They’re just gonna close.

    Lanie Lamarre (12:08):
    It’ll also impact your searchability. Mm-hmm because if you are not, if your checkout page isn’t mobile optimized people, won’t be able to find your checkout page on a Google search. If they already know what they want and they’re looking for, right. You will not come up.

    Dama Jue (12:21):
    Right. Yeah. And I, I think that that is definitely looking long term, but in the immediate, for sure if I can’t read it or if I can’t click the button or if it’s not reading properly, like forget it. I gotta go. I don’t have time for this.

    Lanie Lamarre (12:35):
    Yeah, absolutely.

    Dama Jue (12:36):
    Yeah. So I would say the offer name and mobile optimize are the two biggest must, must, must haves. And your price needs to be on there clearly. And then I like to add two or three, but I call conversion boosters. And so things that you already have them and they can make such a difference. So let me share some of my favorites, a product mockup, I guarantee you’ve already got that on your sales page, throw the mockup on your checkout as well. Right? People love a visual reminder of what they’re buying and what they’re getting. Especially if you have one of those mockups, that’s like, here’s this here’s this here’s, this here’s this, you know, it really gives an overview of what they’re getting. Throw that mock up on your checkout page. I I’m always shocked when I don’t see them. I’m like, why your designer already made this graphic?

    Dama Jue (13:16):
    Or you made this graphic. Why did you not just slap it on the checkout page so easy? And then you can add a few other things. If you have a short and snappy testimonial, I know that on your long form sales page, you probably have these beautiful long gushing novel type testimonials. You might even have video. Those don’t have place on a checkout page. I’m looking at like one sentence, two sentence, like Lenny’s product for air table. Cut my stress in half. Or I saved this much on X, Y, and Z by just switching to this. Like I even actually want it to be no longer than two lines. Like really snappy because people won’t read them. Otherwise mm-hmm one or two short snappy testimonials can make a big difference. Especially if you’ve been tab part, people have walked away or forgotten about the product.

    Dama Jue (14:00):
    They forgot about your sales emails. They skimed your sales copy days ago. Now it’s just like, oh shoot. Uh, this is closing soon. And they’re looking at the very bare minimum price mock up one or two snappy testimonials that can really go a long way to remind them of the benefits without you having to shout out the benefits all over again. And you can add a few other things, countdown, timers, you can remind them about bonuses. You could do a really quick bullet point list of what’s included. There’s lots of other options and things Fons, which is, seems like such a silly thing. But if they’re a tab hoarder, then yeah. Having a Fon set up on your page can be such a difference. Little things like that can really add up to that. Remember, like, I remember why I saved this page. I remember why I was intrigued by this product. And that is really half of closing deal. It’s just, we have so many things fine for our attention, if you can help them, remember why. Yeah, absolutely makes a difference.

    Lanie Lamarre (14:56):
    Every time you say something, I’m just going through my own memory of looking at my own stuff, being like, oh yeah, shit, that’s totally bang on. It’s just it’s human behavior. And making sure that your checkout page also matches your regular brand with the Falon and all these other things that you’re just like, this is mm-hmm, just fluid. This just makes it all cohesive.

    Dama Jue (15:14):
    Absolutely. Yeah. And so I started noticing as I’ve built many funnels for clients, more than happy to throw all their time and attention at the sales page and check out pages were just kind of cast aside. So I started paying attention. I started AB testing. Um, and that’s another reason why I love thrive. Heart is you can AB test checkouts in thrive heart, and it’ll just automatically take care of it for you. And you can design two different ones and see which one is more performant. I love that. And so I started testing things and that’s really what led me to create this kind of collection of proven tested high converting checkout templates. And, and that’s how the thrive cart template shop is born.

    Lanie Lamarre (15:49):
    So how do people get to spy on these awesome sauce templates actually see this in action because when you see these things, you start getting the envy that I have being like, maybe I should just go back to thrive cart

    Dama Jue (16:01):
    yeah. Head to thrive, cart template, Um, I have lots of trainings there and actually one of my favorite things that I love to send people to is my thrive cart flow. Um, actually shows people this funnel that I built that is using one software, zero zaps. Like I love Zapier API, whatever, but the less I need to pay them the better, the less opportunity for automations to break. Yes, the better. And so my full funnel with multiple levels and all this other stuff is all built in thrive cart. And my course delivery, it’s all in thrive cart. Everything is in thrive cart. So I paid once for this software and it’s just working for me like a boss, apple sauce, as you would say, like it’s just handling all the business, no zaps. A lot of people have asked me about that. And so I send them to my funnel flow and they can actually see the behind the scenes, like with wire frames and all those goodies and the pros and cons of how I’m using thrive cars and they full funnel solution. And you can also see check out my templates and actually creep. I mean, I do full page previews of them. So you can creep on some of these options. And, and if that takes you to a light bulb moment of like, wow, okay, I need to update some of my checkouts, um, go and run with it or, or grab the collection and take the easy

    Lanie Lamarre (17:12):
    Way I’m going to link to your creep worthy video. in the show notes. I maybe I’ve had this conversation enough with enough people at this point, but I feel like creeping, we’re all doing it. Let’s just admit it. And let’s actually make it easier for people to creep on how we’re operating in our own businesses to sort of share how you can actually streamline things, actually having something that flows as easily as you want it to.

    Dama Jue (17:36):
    Oh, absolutely. And I’ll be honest. Before I launched the template shop, I went and looked for templates cuz I was like, I don’t wanna have to create this on my own. I’m ready to take the help, but I couldn’t find any good templates. I looked and Googled and I was like, seriously. And I just thought there, this can’t be all there is. And I really couldn’t find anything else. There were either very bland, like chinsy generic ones or they were very Broy and I was like, there has gotta be some kind of chic and converting and high end and beautiful templates out there. And there worked and I was ready to, I was on the creep, you know, I was looking for INPO and I couldn’t find it. So I thought, okay, here I go, let’s go. Let’s do this. And that’s really what came up.

    Lanie Lamarre (18:14):
    Looks like you’re the one who has to create it.

    Dama Jue (18:17):
    Yes. Turns out if no one’s gonna do it. Oh, all right. I’ll do it.

    Lanie Lamarre (18:20):
    Oh, all right. I did the same thing with air table. Like a boss when I was looking to learn more about air table and I really wanted someone to just show me all of it instead of me just staring at it. What is this capable of? Uh, but I couldn’t find anything. And that’s when I created the course in the first place, it feels like a million years ago at this point, just because I couldn’t find anything. So you had to do it yourself. Sometimes. It’s what you have to do.

    Dama Jue (18:40):
    Sometimes you just gotta put on your big row pants and get out there and do it. But if there are good templates, I’m always happy to grab them, but there just weren’t. So I had to be, I had to be the big girl and go out and launch and do it. But yeah, I invite folks to creep on it, creep on the page, creep on the, the free trainings and all that stuff. I loved creating that training. Something that I’m super proud of. That mini training. It’s 15 minutes long. Yeah. I have to tell you that I have created webinars, but nothing in my life is as hard as creating a 15 minute training because I like to talk and there’s a lot involved and I really wanted to give, give, give, but it, I told folks I’m gonna keep it to 15 minutes because like we talked about earlier, attention pants, attention spans. Right. They’re short. And I know personally, I don’t watch 90 minute webinars. I dunno about you, but I’m just like hashtag anybody got time for that. Yeah. Um, but if I can see a 15 minute training and maybe even launch it on two X with subtitles, like I’m in a hundred percent and um, I think that’s, it was really hard. I’m not gonna lie. So that’s why I think if you haven’t checked it out, you should for sure. Check it out. It it’s, I think it’s a piece of art

    Lanie Lamarre (19:41):
    . Now, if people wanna creep on you, where are they going to do that?

    Dama Jue (19:45):
    Yeah. I mainly hang out on Facebook. I mainly hang out in Facebook groups cuz I like to hang out and connect with people. Collaborations are so much a big part of my business and making and networking and making friends. So find me on Facebook. I also, um, am on Instagram for the DMS. I’m not really much of a poster, but I hang out on Instagram. My handle is details, Dotto, DOMA. Um, and I also have the other handle that I use is thrive park company shop. So I’m hang, I hang out on Instagram mainly to take it all in and, and creep, but I’m there for the DMS, but I’m mainly, um, hanging out on Facebook or on email. My FA all my energy really goes to hanging out with people on my email list

    Lanie Lamarre (20:23):
    Where you’re actually connecting and engaging smart lady. Yeah.

    Dama Jue (20:27):
    I’m living for the replies. I just love it.

    Lanie Lamarre (20:29):
    I will put links to all these things in the show notes, make it easy for people to click on through to you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for creating the change that we all need. And actually making us think a little bit about those lost opportunities that kind of are totally within grass.

    Dama Jue (20:44):
    Totally. They were just right there. It’s the low hanging fruit and it’s really not that hard and you don’t have to spend another several thousand dollars to get it right. And to get it and to make a big difference. It

    Lanie Lamarre (20:53):
    Is always the low hanging fruit that gets you the biggest results. The 80 20 rule

    Dama Jue (20:58):
    Mm-hmm . I love it.


  • The Best Ways To Go EVERGREEN with DESTINI COPP

    This is a transcript of episode 62 of the OMGrowth podcast.

    I’m Lanie Lamarre and I received an email from Destini Copp asking if I would speak at her Evergreen Email summit about how to track and improve your evergreen campaigns and I was like, “Is Destini flirting with me?” Because I have my new book that is fresh off the proverbial presses called EMAIL MARKETING OPTIMIZATION which is available in the shownotes so the timing was on-point for us to yakeddy-yak all about evegreen emails and yakaddey-yak we did because there’s so much more to evergreen emails than just sales sequences and deadline timers – in fact, there’s enough to fill a whole summit so there’s also a link to join the Evergreen Email Summit in the shownotes as well which gets started on June 14th but in the meantime, you can tune into my chat with Destini Copp.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Because it’s my favorite thing to talk about, how to track, how to improve your email and especially evergreen funnels, because I feel like they’re one of the easiest to optimize, but it seems so complicated. I think that’s the case with the setup of evergreen emails in general, the whole funnel. It seems really complicated, but I don’t really think it is. So when are evergreen email funnels appropriate to use?

    Destini Copp:
    So first of all, Lanie, you were flirting with me, but I was flirting right back because I absolutely love what you do and how you make data fun, which is, kind of be difficult for a little bit for some of us, including myself, but I know the importance of it. So to answer your question specifically, evergreen funnels are definitely my jam. I think every single online business owner needs to have one set up in their business. It can be very, very simple to set up and going into kind of what you do, it can be one of the most simplest things to track in your business to see if they’re performing well.

    Destini Copp:
    So at a minimum, what I’d like everyone to have is a simple lead magnet type funnel, where somebody comes to your website, they go to your landing page, they sign up for your free lead magnet, and then you start your evergreen nurture sequence from there. You could be welcoming them, telling them a little bit more about you and what you do, but also promoting your services, promoting your digital products through that funnel. If you are asking where to start, that is where I’d recommend that everybody starts.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    I think people have this misconception that putting an evergreen email sequence or a funnel, whatever you want to call it, in place has a sort of sleazy feel because there’s scarcity and sometimes false scarcity and things like that. But I feel like it’s really overlooked in terms of a tool to just get people to know what you have to offer. Just building that relationship a little bit, creating that engagement for people to feel welcome to reaching out to you and finding out more about what you have to offer rather than it always being pitchy.

    Destini Copp:
    Yeah, you’re right. I mean, truly evergreen funnels or just funnels or email marketing in general can get a bad kind of vibe, but there are ways to set them up so you’re being authentic. You’re not being sleazy and you’re really, truly just welcoming people into your world and allowing them to get to know you and you getting to know quite frankly, them better too. So having that two-way conversation in there.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Absolutely. I always, when I’m making videos or something like that, where I know that I’m not going to be able to engage with the other person, it’s like hey, when you click the social link, please slip into my DMs and engage with me, because I don’t want this to be a one sided conversation. I don’t want to be the only one doing the talking. I want you to actually engage with me. I like to be able to take the opportunities to make people feel welcome to doing that.

    Destini Copp:
    That’s a good point and that’s one of the things that I think all of us should be doing in our email marketing is encouraging people to interact with us, to go into our Instagram DMs and send us a private view message, or respond to something. If you’re doing a video, respond underneath to this video so I can answer your questions. Going back to you mentioned about kind of those deadlines that sometimes you see in these evergreen email funnels type thing, and the reality is you can still have deadlines, and those deadlines work. There’s a reason why we put those deadlines in our email marketing is to encourage people to take action and that’s not a bad thing.

    Destini Copp:
    Because number one, you’re helping them to solve something or a need that they have in their business, or in their life or something that you can help them with. So having those deadlines in there is not a bad thing. Lying to them and saying, you’ll never be able to get this again is a bad thing. So we don’t want to be doing things like that, but we do want to be authentic in our marketing.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Absolutely. So how do you see an evergreen email sequence of a funnel, whatever you want to call it, where you have that sequence of emails that is designed to promote something that you have to offer, whether that’s paid or free, to someone who is either joining your email list or took some sort of action that just seemed to be aligned to that product that you had to offer. How is that different from a live launch?

    Destini Copp:
    So a live launch is, for me in my business, and I’ll just give you some examples. I have both set up in my business. I have evergreen sales funnels, evergreen through the email marketing that we’re talking about today. I have several of those set up in my business where people can jump onto my email list and kind of go through them and purchase my products or sign up for services throughout that. Then I do live launches. Generally we’ll do them about twice a year. Mostly I do summits. Sometimes in the past, I’ve done five day challenges or webinars and what’s different in those is it’s basically a short time period. With the summit that we’re talking about now that’s coming up here shortly, is the three day summit.

    Destini Copp:
    So we’re going to be in that Facebook group, all the speakers are going to be there. We’re going to be answering your questions live just like we would be doing if we were doing a live webinar or if we were doing a five day challenge where you’re in that Facebook group. So you are going to be in their live. It’s a shortened time period. There is generally a lot of excitement, because there’s a lot of people going through that process. We’ll probably have a thousand people or so coming through this summit.

    Destini Copp:
    It’s just different. In the evergreen sales funnels you don’t have that live component. I’m not sitting down on a webinar or in a Facebook group live with you answering questions. So that’s what’s missing in these evergreen sales funnels, in these email marketing. But like we’ve just talked about just a second ago, you can still get that interaction with folks through them.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Absolutely. Yeah. What are the most common mistakes you do see someone making when they are putting an evergreen funnel in place or maybe problems or issues that you see being sort of the number one enemy when you’re putting these things in place?

    Destini Copp:
    Well, there’s so many of them, so I’ll try to kind of pull some of them off the top of my head. But one of the biggest mistakes I see people make is getting people on their list and basically ignoring them. They’re not taking that time to build that relationship with them. They’re not making those offers, but somebody’s just finding out about you. That’s the awareness stage.

    Destini Copp:
    Then they go down that buyer’s journey, which you can do through your email marketing, take them through that consideration stage. Then finally, to that decision stage and a lot of people just stop at that awareness stage and don’t really kind of help people move down what we call that buyer’s journey. So they’re not making their offers. They’re not continuing to warm them up doing other things. Maybe doing a Facebook live, or an Instagram live, or watch this recorded video that I made, or listen to my podcast. They’re not continually nurturing them so they can actually get them ready to sign up for one of their services, or enroll in their course, or buy some other type of digital product that they have. So those are some of the biggest mistakes that I see people make.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    You know what’s amazing to me about what you’re saying now, is it’s so true and you put all this time on social media, and the ads, and getting people on your list. Build your list, build your list, build your list. Then when they get on your list, you’re not building the relationship and the rapport that you need to make that worthwhile for both parties. Where the other person is interested or even knows about what you have to offer and then has the opportunity to get interested. Even if they don’t buy your products, if they know you as the person who has… That’s their jam, when they’re talking to their friends about whatever it is that you have to offer, they’re referring people to you. So being able to grow your list is one thing but actually growing those relationships is where I see the magic happening.

    Destini Copp:
    I agree with you and I’m not going to come out here and say it’s easy to do that, right? It’s not easy to do that. We need to produce content. Doesn’t mean that we need to constantly churn out content, but we do need to get them valuable content, whether it’s maybe blog posts that we’re doing, stuff we’re posting on social media and pointing them to, or podcast episodes. I mean, there’s a lot of ways we continue to nurture our email subscribers that will help us as we get down. Maybe if you’re ready to do a live launch in the future, or promote something else that you’re doing or doing a big launch with one of your services, it’ll be much easier for people to say, oh yes, I’ve been waiting for this. I trust her. I’ve been watching her for a while. I’m ready to do this and make a move.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Absolutely. Yeah. I’m so on board with you for that. It’s not easy to manage any relationship. With a significant other, for instance, you still have to go on a date with them once in a while. You still have to have dinner and enjoy each other’s conversation a little bit to keep that magic going. It’s no different than the people who are on your list. That is a relationship. It requires maintenance. It’s not going to be easy and maybe it’s not the magical stuff that is the sexy stuff of attracting people to your brand, but it is what keeps things sustainable and going.

    Destini Copp:
    Yeah. If I could mention one more mistake, if you don’t mind-

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Oh no. Bring the mistakes on.

    Destini Copp:
    It just popped in my mind. I’m like, oh yeah, I got to mention this. So one other mistake that I will mention is evergreen sales funnels, a lot of people think, oh, I can just set it and forget it. Kind of going back to kind of what you do and what you help people with is really, once you set up one of these evergreen sales funnels that have all these great emails and everything in them that you have, you have to constantly look at the data.

    Destini Copp:
    The reality is you might need to go in and tweak a landing page. You might need to go in and look at your email stats and your email service provider to see what emails are getting opened. To see where people are clicking and go in, maybe it’s once a quarter to go in and kind of look at all of that and see where they need to make tweaks to it. That’s one thing that I think a lot of people do or think about. When they think about evergreen sales funnels, they think about, oh, I can just passively sell my products and services and you really can’t. You got to continue to look at the data and figure out what’s working and where you need to make tweaks to it.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Absolutely. Yeah. I will be teaching at the summit coming up. I’m going to be teaching you not only how to look at what your email marketing service provider is telling you, but also what are they doing on your page once they click through? What happens after the click through? Being able to track that even with the iOS updates, even with all this stuff, you can still very easily track what people are doing once they get to your sales page and seeing are they staying on my sales page? Are they scrolling? What are they doing when they get there? And which one of the emails is causing the most engagement, which one is causing the most sales?

    Lanie Lamarre:
    So being able to hone in on that data is what I will be speaking at at the summit. So tell us about the summit because it is going down I believe next week. We will have links to everything in the show notes. So you can click through on those to join us. But you said there are a lot of problems and issues with evergreen email funnels and I believe we will be talking about a lot of those at the summit, right?

    Destini Copp:
    Yeah. So first of all, your presentation is going to be at the top of my list because that’s definitely something that I personally want to get better with. I want to know. So I cannot wait, wait, wait, wait to watch what you have. But for this summit, we’re going to be talking to all about evergreen sales funnels. Really in everything that you need to scale your business with evergreen sales funnels. So definitely check us out. We’re going to be talking about sales pages. We’re going to be talking about email marketing. We’re even going to have some mindset and accountability coaches in there for all of us who need that little extra push to kind of get in there and get really motivated to tackle a lot of the challenges that we have in our business.

    Destini Copp:
    So June the 14th, it starts. So make sure that you click on the link that Lanie has in her link in the podcast and sign up and get enrolled today and we’ll see you there.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    I’m all about talking about email marketing and being able to track that a little bit better, especially with everyone being very chicken little about, oh, well we can’t track email tracking anymore. This is not true. You cannot do it necessarily within your email marketing service the way you used to be able to do it. Open rates are not a metric you can use as a benchmark anymore, but that doesn’t mean that engagement can be measured. If people are engaging with you, that can be measured. So we will look into that at the summit happening June 14th to 16th. I’m so excited about this Destini. Thank you so much for being a guest, for inviting me and I hope to see you all at the summit as well.

    Destini Copp:
    Yay. Thank you so much Lanie.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Thank you.

    I love how versatile the use of email automations can be and I’m excited to learn more at the summit – again, a link is in the shownotes to sign up to event, you’ll also find a link to my new book EMAIL MARKETING OPTIMIZATION and I mean it when I say that I don’t want these conversations to be one-sided so there are links to my social media in the shownotes as well so slip into my DMs, say wassup and what you’re up to and into, and let’s talk soon- baiiiieee!


  • Tracking What Matters in GROUP PROGRAMS and MEMBERSHIPS with MELODY JOHNSON, The Course Consultant

    This is a transcript of the OMGrowth Podcast episode 59.

    I’m Lanie Lamarre and today’s guest is none other than the course consultant herself, Melody Johnson…. and Melody and I taaaaalllllked. I think I thought I had one of those hour-long interview podcasts – in fact, talking to Melody made me wish I had one of those because we went on… and on… because running a group program or membership successfully is flipping magical to me. There’s so much work that goes into acing the onboarding for every single person who joins, the processes and content creation it takes just to maintain that recurring income and membership, the constant improvement mode you’re inevitably in with this business model – we talked about it all but I had to shorten what we recorded to fit this podcast episode format and it still feels like it’s bursting at the seams. There’s so much misleading information about how easy it is to make a gazillion dollars overnight with a membership that will be your money faucet that Melody’s super-professional, grounded in reality expertise is exactly the point view I want to hear from and I’m stoked to be bringing her and her OMGrowth-based insights on what you have to know to run a successful group program to you today.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Melody, welcome.

    Hey, so excited to be here today.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    I am so excited to have you. Let’s get into it. So, with data, talk data to me. You dropped the MRR and ARR. What are they and why do course creators and membership owners, membership founders, why do they care about MRR and ARR?

    Yeah. So ARR is annual recurring revenue and MRR is monthly recurring revenue. So, for instance, when we’re tracking the income that’s coming in, whether that’s through monthly recurring revenue from our membership, our group program or our cohort or our subscription-based business, we want to know what is the money that is generated from the base package. That’s the monthly recurring revenue. And as we continue to receive that revenue, that is contributing to the annual recurring revenue. So we have our monthly and we have our annual. Makes sense. But what can be challenging to track for membership owners and group founders is all the data sources. Where are we getting the dollars from, right?

    So for people who will listen to this, you’ve probably used some sort of payment process or maybe used a course platform to receive payments. And, of course, well then, maybe you have some deductions because of the processing fee or whatever and then you’re trying to track all of these other metrics. Maybe you have one-off products that are not really related to your main offering, which is your membership or your group program. And now you’re just looking at the numbers and thrive cards saying, “Is this accurate? Are the numbers inside here a true representation of what’s actually in here? Because I have to go do my taxes and I’m not quite sure what’s going on here.”

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Worst feeling ever.

    Yes. And I’ve done that because I myself have a membership and I’m looking at the numbers going, “What the heck is going on? I’m so confused. These data sources are saying this year, this is saying here and now I have this other stuff. And what’s going on? I’m not a numbers person.”

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Okay. So, what do you do?

    Yeah. So what I recommend doing is using a single source of truth. And what I like to use personally that has worked for me is to use a software that’s free called ChartMogul. That’s It’s a free tool that will help to input your data sources, specifically payment platforms like PayPal and Stripe, and will take that data and it will actually create this beautiful dashboard with a full graph visualization chart that will actually share with you the data of what’s actually the monthly recurring revenue every single month. And you’ll also have something that’s called a cohort analysis. And, essentially, what a cohort analysis is, is it will actually track when students came in during this month, how many continued on and where did they fall off.

    So what you might see is you have a big launch, okay? So you have a group program launch, certification launch, membership launch. You have people join and then you have something that’s called churn. So churn is actually the rate at which you lose customers. So it’s actually a percentage. And, obviously, the lower your churn rate is, meaning the less people leave, the better it will contribute to your annual recurring revenue. Meaning you generate more sales from the front end and you retain your customers, which contributes to the growth of your annual recurring revenue, right? So you have, instead of people falling out the funnel, you have it where it comes in and it grows at the base.

    And so I talk about this a little bit more inside of a free training that I have. But, essentially, what ends up happening is you can actually see money coming from your main users or however you call them. Your visitors, your customers, your clients. You have main income coming from those customers. And you also have something called expansion revenue, which is basically revenue that’s not tied to the original purchase price of the main product that you’re selling, but it’s actually additional revenue. And most business owners are already doing it. They’re just not aware that that’s what it’s called. It’s just supplementary services or products that will complement the main package or offering. So for a group program, that might be annual retreats, it might be a one-on-one intensive, it might be a power hour or a licensing agreement or something like that.

    So there’s two kinds. I don’t want to give everything away because we could talk about this for hours, but there’s different kinds of expansion revenue that you can use in your business. And what’s important to actually track first are those two numbers. What is the rate at which you’re losing customers in your group program or membership? And then, also, what is your monthly recurring revenue and what do you want to improve? How can you increase your monthly recurring revenue so that you retain the customers you already have? Because as we’ve said, the money that comes in, we want to keep and we want to grow.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    You had me at dashboard, first of all. Oh, and you can see how all of this plays out on a dashboard. I love the creativity behind that, because you can actually wrap your head around what the numbers look like. My mind is already spinning in terms of, how does that information apply to everything else that you do? Because you’re essentially calculating what the client lifetime value is for your membership. And when you know that number, you know how much you can afford to spend on ads, you know whether you can afford to sponsor that summit, you know how you can spend money to be able to generate more. Not only that, you can forecast how much more money you can afford to make when you invest in these other strategies. Which that’s exciting to me. That’s the most exciting to me.

    Yeah. And I think that we’re just not taught this, right? We don’t sit in school saying, “Can you explain to me what the customer lifetime value of this is for Susie and Jared?”

    Lanie Lamarre:

    We don’t learn this. And it’s kind of a funny, interesting world that we live in. Because in the SaaS world, this is very common knowledge. The whole process of the cohort analysis, the customer lifetime value, calculating what your cost per acquisition is and then seeing how you can increase your recurring revenue. And that’s why that ChartMogul software is there. It was actually created for SaaS or subscription-based business models. However, group coaching program founders and memberships could absolutely benefit from it. And it’s free until you hit 10,000 monthly recurring revenue.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    And at that point, if you’re bringing in those kinds of numbers, you can afford to pay for the dang software. So bring it on.

    Yeah, exactly.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Tell everyone not only where they can find you, but where they can find that training you mentioned. Because for selfish reasons, I will be tuning in as well.

    Yeah. So, well, I do have a free tool that I created myself and it is called a retention calculator. So all the numbers that I was talking about-

    Lanie Lamarre:

    Yeah. So we were talking about churn and you’re thinking to yourself, “Well, how do I calculate that? What’s the actual calculation?” Well, I do have a retention calculator that will do all the heavy lifting for you. So if you go to, and I’ll share the link with you, Lanie, you will be able to input the data sources that you have. And the free training that I was talking about, it’s actually a three-day workshop series called The Customer Success Sprint. And there’s a group program audit, basically a workbook that’s associated. Yes, you can type it in. It’s cool like that. And you’ll be able to take a look at all of the important things we talked about. Calculating churn, identifying what your monthly recurring revenue is, what your goal is for ARR. And then also to identify some opportunities for growth in your membership through curriculum design, which is how I kind of got started in instructional design, and then creating just a checklist of what ways are going to make this change. At what point are you going to help to make and iterate this change with your team and with your customers.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    And I want to emphasize, look, if all this sounds like, “Oh, wow, I’d really like to know that, but I’m not a numbers person. I can’t do this sort of stuff.” Listen, you have a team. I would assume if that’s how your thought pattern is. Get somebody on your team to take the training and do this heavy lifting for you and report back numbers because that’s what the boss does. That’s what wearing the bossy pants means. It means knowing your numbers and having a plan for how you’re going to use those to improve how you’re operating. So, even if you’re not the person doing this in your organization, you need somebody in your organization coming to you with those numbers. So set yourself up for success on that front by either registering for it yourself or signing somebody else up for it.

    Yep, absolutely. Yep, it’s a great training. And I’m always open, if people have questions, to talk about it. Because not many people, at least that I’m aware of, are talking about this.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    That’s so great. You’re so great. I’m so glad you’re here. Thank you so much for being here, Melody.

    Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

    And she’s right, you know? Not a lot of people are talking about what numbers you need to know to be and to stay profitable in group program and membership models. It’s a lot easier and sexier to talk about how recurring income is like a money faucet stream, but what do you need to get that tap flowing in the first place and then keep it flowing is a totally different thing. I love Melody for that and you know I’m signing up for that retention calculator, and you can too in the shownotes. There will also be a link to that 3-day training in the shownotes as well. And I actually met Melody on Instagram so I know she’d love if reached out and said hi to her there too


  • The Future of RELATIONSHIP MARKETING with Jordan Gill of Systems Saved Me

    This is a transcript of episode 52 for the OMGrowth podcast

    I’m Lanie Lamarre and even though I had a cold at the time of recording this episode, my heart had the warm and fuzzies because I had the pleasure of speaking to Jordan Gill from Systems Saved Me about how mega-aligned she is to the future of marketing. If you’ve listened to other episodes of the podcast, you’ve heard me say that if you want to stay relevant with all the changes happening in digital marketing, you’re going to have to start interacting with people like a human… and when I heard Jordan was collaborating on a solution for that, I had to talk to her and today’s episode is that talk.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    I received an email from you. And the subject line was “I built a software 😱” and I was like, “what is she up to?” And I read the email. I’m like, oh, Jordan acquired a new skill. She’s clairvoyant now. So, uh, tell us about the software and then we’ll get into why it makes you clairvoyant.

    Jordan Gill:
    Oh my goodness. Yeah. It’s uh, it was quite the announcement. Some people were shocked, some people were not. Um, cause they’re like “you are a systems person.” I was shocked that I got into it, but having the business name Systems Saved Me, I, I guess it was that part of it should have, I should have seen it coming, but you and I are very similar, Lanie, in the sense at, you know, we geek out about systems. We love software and tools and all those things. And alongside of that, the reason that we love that so much is because the power of business really comes in like real life and connecting with people and talking and having really amazing connections and relationships. But if you’re so busy doing all the, you know, admin stuff in your business, or God forbid like sending one-off contracts or whatever else, like you’re missing out on what I believe to be the joy of business, which is the connecting and relationships part. So I was like, well, gosh, I guess I am the person – or one of the three people, cause it’s a partner ship – to bring this into the world and to make sure that people recognize and realize in the grand scheme of algorithms and cookies and craziness, that we’re just getting back to how business has always meant to be, which is connecting and serving from your highest purpose instead of, you know, click clacking behind your computer, click

    Lanie Lamarre:
    “Click-clacking behind your computer.” Yeah. We all spend way too much time staring at a screen. The connection part of it seems like a missed opportunity, but you’re making it easier for people to tap into that opportunity with this software that you build, yeah? What is the software doing exactly?

    Jordan Gill:
    Yes, so there is, you know, 2022 Trends – so I do feel very clairvoyant – is that, you know, social selling is a thing. Meaning that people are selling and connecting and messaging through social media, whether that’s Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, all the things, um, instead of text messaging, email, not to say you don’t have an text message and email, but there’s software that’s already doing those things. And no one has capitalized on the social media selling aspect of things. And that’s really the only place I was really selling for my group program that I run for my business. And it got messy, if I’m being honest. Yeah, because it’s really hard to track how many conversations are happening and whatnot in the main inbox feed of any of the social media platforms. So we are taking the social media conversations and placing them in a pipeline format that will allow you to know how many conversations are in each phase of your sales process or your funnel.

    So how many people are you talking to right now? Who’ve downloaded your freebie and you know, they need to go into the next step of registering for your webinar and then, okay. How many people have registered for the webinar? And they have attended the live webinar or, or watched a past webinar. Okay. They’re in this list and then moving forward to, okay, how many have watched the webinar, but have not joined or enrolled? How many of those do you need to go through the objections? So it’s putting a spotlight on how many conversations you actually are having and then which conversations to be having, right. It’s not just, “Hey, how’s it going over there? Everything cool?” Like, no, you should actually be talking to this person about why they haven’t joined the program because they’ve already watched your webinar. Like, don’t just start a conversation because you don’t know what to say. You’ll know it’s exactly where they’re at in your sales pipeline, in your sales journey, in your funnel, whatever you wanna call it. And so you can have a, a more prevalent conversation with every person that is in your messages and, and direct messages.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Yeah, we have this for everything. We have it for our inbox. We have it for our email marketing systems. Like these client relationship management systems, essentially what it is. But for your social media and to have that speaking to everything else that you’re working with is not just brilliant, but it’s just like, it’s one of these things where it’s like, why hasn’t somebody already done this? It had to be you, Jordan! Because this is, like, your pain point. This is something that yes, you could do these things based out of your own experiences of what’s missing in the online world. So how did you sit down and decide to be the change you wanted to see in the world? Hahaha.

    Jordan Gill:
    Oh gosh. Um, it took many, many nights on Airtable, uh, because I, I honestly, I have a pretty brilliant system in Airtable. The not-so-brilliant part about it is there’s so much manual work that my sales team had to do that it just became ridiculous. And so I was actually at a, a peer mastermind with some friends and we were just sitting there, you know, talking about problems in business and things we wish there were solutions for. And every single person in the room was experiencing the same issues. Now I was the one who had, I guess, the most jumpstart to a solution to this issue. But everyone was like, well, what if we create a software based on Jordan’s Airtable ? And I was like, “yeah, yeah. Okay. Like, cool.” And then we were like, “no, but really like, can we, can we do this? Like, is this the thing we can do? “

    And so myself and, uh, two others. So co-founder between myself,ErinLindstrom, who is technically our CEO, she’s actually sold high ticket for agencies and a lot of group coaching programs for the past five years. And then we have Lindsey Padilla who is technically in more of an advisor role and she’s built a software company herself. And so she is more or less, again, more of an advisor role, but she still is a co-founder. And then I fulfill the role of more COO/also end-product and making sure that again, what we’re creating similar enough to the Airtable that I have built, but literally reduced all of the manual stuff that we have going on. You’ve

    Lanie Lamarre:
    You’ve already met some of the challenges of managing this in the way you were already doing it with air Airtable, so how to manage social media… social media marketing client relationship management? I’m sure that there’s a better term out there for it. And if you have one by means I’m happy to use it, but the you’ve encountered all the issues with improving it and how it works in Airtable and how, you know, it doesn’t work in Airtable to translate that into however it is that you are doing it on the backend to have someone like Lindsay who she’s, this is Hello Audio?

    Jordan Gill:
    Yep. Yep.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    So she’s like, she’s gone through the growing pains of, “oh, I’m gonna start a very needed platform that everybody wants and doesn’t exist and why doesn’t it exist” sort of thing. And to have those two super powers mixed with the person who organizes everything and who interacts with everyone. That’s so great to have that trifecta of different expertise levels where you’re going to skip a lot of learning curves that neither one of you would be able to do alone.

    Jordan Gill:
    Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We have the trifecta of kind of the expert in sales experts, software experts andsystems. And I’m like the systems part of that little trio.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    That’s amazing. So when does this launch, or is it already launched?

    Jordan Gill:
    Yeah, so we, uh, decided to soft launch, I guess you will say to we ended up being about 75 people. And those are 75 people who essentially said yes through paying us a one time lifetime fee for access to the software prior to its hard launch, meaning it will be a lot more public and there will be monthly and annual payment plans that will happen in April of 2022. So right now our 75 people are helping us flush out the features and find the bugs and, and give us that feedback. Um, and they they’re gonna be our true fans, right? It’s kind of the notion of a thousand true fans, but really we just were like, let’s just focus on 75 cuz a thousand is a lot, uh, to have to focus on. So we are in the process right now of getting the beta into their hand and their teams hands and figuring out again how we can just make the product that much better for the hard lunch in April of 2022.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Yeah. And it’s like, things break. That’s just normal.

    Jordan Gill:
    Oh my God.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    In terms of software I’m clearly I don’t have to tell you, but when you’re putting any system together, when you’re automating anything in your, even in your small business with your, you know, your own little operations, things will break. Things need to be fixed. Bugs need to be worked out. And to be able to identify those before you do launch it, where you have to manage a thousand people who are buggy versus 75 people who are buggy, being like “we’re here to support you and we’re here to make this work and be a part of how it gets built” also in ways where you are serving how people are interacting with their own clients in a way that you might not actually be doing either, or you might not be savvy on having that feedback is so, so valuable. Feedback is the most valuable data set that you have. And it’s not a number it’s just information that you have to ask people for, is the clincher. You can’t… there’s no Google analytics for it, unfortunately.

    Jordan Gill:
    No, there’s not . And if there was Lanie would know about it

    Lanie Lamarre:
    So how long did it take from people admiring your Airtable processes and saying, “Hey, Hey, I want to be able to replicate this in my business” to where you are now with your 75 founding members and getting ready to launch into, um, making it available for all.

    Jordan Gill:
    Yeah. So when was this? April of 2021 is when we all met up and I was showing everyone my Airtable. Um, that’s the thing about the “behind the scenes” juice is, it’s not very often for people to know what, you know, what’s going on “behind the scenes” of everyone’s business and everyone, you know, naturally wants to see what I’m doing, cuz I’m always tinkering and creating stuff. But I will say my Airtable is pretty dang awesome. So we’re gushing over that April, 2021. And, and it was almost like, you know, we actually had originally five partners and slowly throughout the process, two of the partners determined that it wasn’t a good fit for them to put, you know, effort and energy toward the project. And that is totally okay. And we’ve many, many conscious conversations about that. So I would say the core three of us moved forward in technically June-ish/July and settled in.

    Jordan Gill:
    So we had, you know, the equity conversation, which is not something, you know, you have to have every day. we had, you know, roles and responsibilities conversations, legal conversations, and whatnot around everything. And, you know, cuz someone has to be the CEO. And even though it is technically my process and Airtable, I did not wanna be the face and I was very clear about that. So, um, I’m a behind the scenes gal. I already have to be the face for my one company, I don’t wanna have to do it twice. So we just had all those conversations in June, July. And then I would say we started, uh, development in July. And so when we’ve had to continue to hire developers to keep up with all of the magic that we’re trying to put together and have ready for people. Uh, so it’ll, it will have been a full year from conception of like, “okay, yeah, we’re gonna like try and move this forward” to when we actually hard-launched to the public.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    So correct me if I’m mistaken on the sort of timelines, but so let’s say about a year from conception to launching to the public, where you spend essentially one quarter determining what everybody’s going to be doing, who’s going to be responsible for what, putting all the legal stuff in place before you even start working on the project.

    Jordan Gill:

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Then a quarter working on developing the software, another quarter selling to and testing with those founding member and then you’ll be about ready to launch at, well, no, it would be a full, so maybe I’m underestimating how long it takes for the development…

    Jordan Gill:
    The development was about two quarters.

    Lanie Lamarre:

    Jordan Gill:

    Lanie Lamarre:
    And that’s still a pretty quick turnaround, it seems to me.

    Jordan Gill:
    It is.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Do you know what the industry standard would be for, for something like that?

    Jordan Gill:
    Oh goodness. More than likely, about two years actually is what we found.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    And I’m sure that had a lot to do with the expertise that you’re working with. One: people who know the subject matter really well. Two: people who already started software companies and have done that. And also the fact that you got your ish together, if you will, with putting all the ducks in order, everyone knowing what their role is.

    Jordan Gill:
    I think that’s probably one of the biggest things: he had a team in place. That was really crucial because again, uh, Lindsay on our team was in a tech incubator for her other software, Hello Audio. And so there were three months where she’s like not coming to any meetings. Uh, and we were okay with that and everything, everyone ever in flows, everyone has stuff going on. This, this is not our main business for any of us. So, you know, we have to make it work for everyone in order for us to continue to move forward. And when it doesn’t feel like it works, then we have a conscious conversation. So yeah, it’s um, I, I don’t know if I would partner with many people….

    Lanie Lamarre:
    Uh, nor would!

    Jordan Gill:
    Right. But for me, Erin and Lindsay, I’ve been in a, a peer mastermind with them for five years. I know them in out upwards, backwards, sideways all the ways. So we’ve gone through life and business together. And so I know a lot more about them than potentially even my husband that I’ve only known for three years. So, you know, it it’s, um, it’s a, it takes a very special individual for, for me to wanna put my effort and time behind something. And, and these two individuals specifically and this specific tool and, you know, there was a lot of timing. You know, three years ago, even last year, if they had come to me with this, I’d be like, uh, like, “I don’t know, like let me see.” But it just, it’s one of those things: when it feels right, then, then it feels right.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    And that’s where you’re also like tapping into the clairvoyant thing, by the way. Because if you were to come up with this idea a year ago, I’m not sure it would have the impact that it does right now.

    Jordan Gill:
    I agree.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    With all of these changes with the iOS updates and people being, “I can’t do my tracking and the, uh, the cookies aren’t working and everything in my marketing is falling apart.” Your marketing isn’t falling apart. It is forcing you to be more human. It is forcing you to interact with people in a more humane way, rather than just being pitching with emails that are cold and automated. You’re actually going to have to, you know, use pipelines and things like that and follow up.

    Jordan Gill:
    That’s a crazy concept.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    It’s such a weird thing, but it’s what we all used to do. And I really love that this software is coming out when it is when everyone’s just kind of screaming for the hill saying, “oh, my whole marketing system’s ruined.” No, you’re just going to have re-think how you use it. Yeah. And this is so perfect for filling in that gap. What is the software called? How do people find out more about this?

    Jordan Gill:
    Yes. So the software is called Collect and the technical legal name is Let’s Collect but you can check out our website, it’s just, I’m sure Lanie will have it somewhere in the show notes as well.
    If this is previous to April, there will be a wait list. But if it is after April, you know, you’re listening to this, then it will be our main page and you can check out the features and us and, and all of the good stuff. So, uh, we also are on Instagram and Facebook technically, um, not a shocker as we are connected to social, but, um, and that, let’s just, you know, letscollect, I believe @letscollectco on Instagram and I believe it’s also letscollectco on Facebook.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    I’ll make sure that we have all the links to those, as well as to your own personal Instagram feed. Because if you are at all interested in getting organized and connecting in a human way with the way that you are putting systems in place, Jordan is, um… I know that your Systems Saved Me is your brand but when I think of you, I think of the relationship building skills that you have. That’s the number one thing that always shows up for first for me.

    Jordan Gill:
    Thank you.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    And that shows up so much in your, in Instagram posts, in your feed, in the way that you interact. So, um, I encourage everyone to go check that out as well. I’ll put link to that in the show notes, but if people do wanna follow you, where do they do that personally?

    Jordan Gill:
    Yes. So I am at Systems Saved Me, um, and Instagram is my jam. That’s mainly where I am. So if you’re on Facebook are actually gonna be routed to my team. I? Um, so, uh, I just, I don’t know, Facebook is not isn’t my jam as much as Instagram. So I would say @systemssavedme on Instagram is probably the best place to connect with me specifically.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    That’s awesome. Thank you so much, Jordan, not just for doing the podcast, but for creating the things that… listen, we all know that we want this, somebody had to do when it was you and I’m grateful you did.

    Jordan Gill:
    Oh, thank you so much, Lanie, for having me on and for always just again, doing amazing, amazing work with systems. It’s, it’s really awesome to continue to support you and, and shine a lot on you as much as I can.

    Lanie Lamarre:
    I encourage you to take a step back and think about how YOU are interacting with people, how YOU are building relationships in this digital landscape. Not how you’re making sales, not how you’re building awareness of your brand, but where is the interaction and engagement happening, where are the conversations taking place?

    It is only going to become more and more important for you to be able to meet people where THEY are, and you can and should expect to see more tools like Connect making that easier for you to manage. The value of something like Connect starts with YOUR ability to identify “hey! my people and interactions go down on social media… how do I better set those interactions up?” and finding a system or process that will make that happen.

    Jordan has taken hers for social media and created the software so you don’t have to. But you do have the action item here of thinking intentionally about where those connections are happening for you and exploring the ways you can make those better for both you and your audience.

    And if you want to connect with me by way of a 5-star review, I’d love the stink out that so please do that and subscribe and all the things, and we will connect again next week – baiiieee!!!